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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 9th January 2004, 06:35 AM   #21
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Default Re: diyAudio reference speaker project

Quote:
Originally posted by x. onasis
(His TLb comes to mind.)
I can't take credit for the design, only to promoting it and the concepts it exemplifies.


Quote:
Originally posted by sreten
Well documented designs already exist for the 'newbie'
Right on -- This is very much the case. the problem is that there are so many to choose from. Any preconceptions (valid or not) a newbie comes in with and different needs for different people complicate things. And budget too (i hate to see a newbie expressing the desire to spend a zillion dollars on a 1st pr of speakers). A good budget for that 1st pr would be $50-500.

A good full-range (which most often needs a helper tweeter anyway) or a simple "convential" 2-way with the goal of adding separate powered woofers later is the direction i like to point them in.

dave
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Old 9th January 2004, 12:50 PM   #22
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Dave,

Thanks for chiming in with a positive response and succinctly addressing the appropriate concerns. You've often pointed out that the use of a separate sub frees up the mid-bass or full ranger to excel by limiting its duties. Are you also saying that we might aim our project around a full-ranger for similar reasons?

I was hoping to get A/B comparisons now _and_ later between popular kits that show promise of expansion in designs and see where it leads. The interest shown so far suggests promise of this project in general.

Also so far, it seems the price range for interested builders is not in the Proac range, even with the likely result being a higher end project. First timers do have much to learn, but on the issue of their interest or knowledge, let each of us, with our own abilities decide where we go and those of you with greater knowledge help with the process as you wish.

Rabbitz makes a welcome suggestion of using Peerless instead of the P13 , and PHilgeman suggests PL14 or the MG14. Does anyone have first hand experience with comparable setups for an A/B comparison? Do these drivers show the promise of expansion?

Thanks for all the responses.
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Old 9th January 2004, 01:32 PM   #23
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Well, I am a COMPLETE newbie here. I have done lots of car audio, but am wanting to move on to home audio. I plan on moving from an apartment to a house soon, and when I do, I want a really nice audio setup.

Here are my concerns for a loudspeaker design as a newbie.

1. Price - no one wants to spend alot of money on thier first kit... it might not turn out right and I wouldnt want to spend alot on it.

2. Choice - being new doesnt mean we want to follow a strict set of guidelines. Perhaps suggest 3 or 4 or more different driver combinations and enclosure designs.

3. Leaning - This is going to be a learning experience for whoever does this (I am really thinking about doing this very soon). A nice FAQ or small web site that shows volume/port calculations, crossover bulding, driver choice, etc. Something that would give a good basic explanation as to why and how each decision for the above design options.



This is my first post here after a week of lurking. I finally have a router and nice bits, and have been looking through the PE catalog for a while now and really am excited for this. Keep up the good work guys!
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Old 9th January 2004, 01:52 PM   #24
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Yes, there are a lot of projects on the web but how would a newbie know what is good and what is rubbish. I thinks that's why they turn to this site for direction as there is a lot of knowledge here and it is IMO, the best DIY site. Searching for answers is not easy and when you do find something you tend to get conflicting information. I tried to get info on gainclones, but it just filled my head with too much bits of info that became a puzzle and I didn't know which was good, so I gave up.

I've seen too many times where a newbie has asked for a direction of what to build, only to be pointed to some exotic, expensive project.

A project not so much endorsed by this site but created here and given the thumbs up would give the newbie confidence that his project is going to sound OK and his money and effort isn't going to be wasted. All that is needed is some good economical starter projects such as a small bookshelf, a floorstander and a sub which would cover most newbie needs.

A completed project section would be nice where enough details could be provided for someone to build it .........or are people too worried their design might get heckled........ or are they secrets. Come to think of it, I've never seen any final design details.
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Old 9th January 2004, 02:04 PM   #25
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rabbitz is right on.
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Old 9th January 2004, 02:53 PM   #26
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I also agree with the thread. A nice compact (and fairly cheap) pair of speakers that everyone has kept fairly similar would be good. It is of course mainly helpful to newer people, but as suggested, would make a lovely reference point for people to compare other components. A lot of the things in this field are highly opinionated, and this can reduce the relevance of it to the beginner. What I class as nice and "detailed" someone else might call "edgy". I haven't ever listened to expensive gear, so I haven't had a chance to calibrate my ear to it.

Ideally, I think such a reference system should also include an amplifier and perhaps a simple preamp. At least this way, beginners would have a well matched system that will allow direct comparisons with others on this board and help direct their enthusiasm.

I am new to this, I have built one pair of speakers to a design (incorrectly), and would love to have a base system (with as many other people as possible) for comparison.

Andrew
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Old 9th January 2004, 04:47 PM   #27
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Generally it is impossible to get DIY people to restrain themselves and build the same thing because what attracts them to DIY is that they get to add their own ideas to their project. It is a lot cheaper to go with one mid/woofer and one tweeter.
Then they each can be of high quality.

1. An interesting and fun approach might be to specify certain drivers and a box size and shape. Then let everyone go wild on the crossover, baffle step correction, notch filters, Zobel etc. Lots of potential designs, people could try each others designs, lot of discussion and arguments. The box should be the same size and shape as one of the new high quality boxes available at PArts Express, so some could just throw it together. Others could make homebrew boxes .

How about using tricky to use, not too expensive ones like the Vifa ring radiator tweeter?,

Or maybe go high efficiency, with
the Aurum Cantus cheapest model tweeter at about $100 each?
Need a higher crossover with these though

I don't know what woofer/mids would work bestwith these options, but some of you have ideas I'll bet!

2. The other appealing approach is to spec ONLY the drivers and let cabinets be part of the wild card. This would allow people with only 2 tweets and 2 woofs total to temperarly put all their drivers in one cabinet to test ideas such as push/push, or to try open baffle, or J Low horns, etc. The drivers could be used in any multiples desired. Now THAT would be fun!! I think option 2 fits the DIY mentality!!

Any ideas?
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Old 9th January 2004, 04:57 PM   #28
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So perhaps what we need is a section in the Wiki with recommended 1st projects? Perhaps a bit of a review?

A project wuld really need at least 2 "sponsors" otherwise it would be a single person's take on his own project.

dave
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Old 9th January 2004, 06:13 PM   #29
Lusso5 is offline Lusso5  United States
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How about the gurus get together and write: "The Idiots Guide to DIY Loudspeakers."

On the subject of the thread:

Most of the well documented designs seem to run $150-200 for the parts (not including enclosure materials).

If the diyaudio.com reference speaker were a budget design, that could be had for around $100, I think it would be more attractive.

Yes, I know there are a few designs out there, in that price range, but mosty 1-way full-range, and 2-ways with small woofers, which dont go very low.

There are a ton of 6.5" woofers that are $20-30, and many tweeters that are $10-20. And with all of the $150-200 retail bookshelfs I've heard that sound decent - a comparable $100 DIY should be doable, right?

For example:

The drivers used in the Audax HT kit are on sale at PE. For a 2-way:
AP170Z0 - $22.04
TM025F1 - $11.04

With x-over parts, you should be able to come in around $100.

Just my 0.02-newbie-cents about the subject.
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Old 10th January 2004, 07:53 AM   #30
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I recently had a look through all the documented speaker projects I could find that named the drivers and included a crossover schematic. It surprised me how few I could find, given I have a very fast internet connection which allows me to view vast numbers of pages very quickly, so I have a massive link list. There are are great many DIY speaker designs that have been well implemented but not documented. Often because the person who built them doesn't know how easy it is to create a website, or they don't have the inclination to share their design on the web, which often means the idea simply hasn't occurred to them.

I'm all for seeing as many DIY speakers put up on the web as possible. Yes, there are some good ones out there, but often the ones that are adequately documented don't quite have the driver combination that you would like.

In DIY I think diversity is one of the best things. Instead of having a number of people do the same thing, I'd rather see a numbef of people do a number of different speakers and then document them sufficient for a newbie to build it, given at least the ability to source components and read a crossover schematic. Perhaps this reference speaker could be a vented 2 way bookshelf speaker using a 5" or 6.5" midbass driver at a price point significantly less than Scan Speak and Seas Excel drivers.

If anyone does have a DIY speaker that they haven't posted on the web, I have a new thread where you can have it posted on my site. I'm also looking for some good links.

regards,
Paul
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