Crossover impedance - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th April 2014, 08:55 PM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Thanks for the references. I'd prefer stay on dedicated bass speakers for their typical unbalanced response on frequencies that gives the tonal personality we request for our instrument sounding. Then those are light for handling purpose as our cab and amplifiers often move cheaper also

Regarding speakers arrangement, I got this info as 2 speakers or 4 speakers are common cab combination. my original question somehow comes from this, as two 8 ohm speakers (boomer + tweeter) in parallel render basically 4 ohm, but the crossover additional components adjusts to 8 ohm, so I wonder how this could match lower impendance drivers I plan.
Even missed that Eminence had specific crossover products, I'll ask them for sure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 01:37 AM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
Inductor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cascais
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourettes View Post
Regarding speakers arrangement, I got this info as 2 speakers or 4 speakers are common cab combination. my original question somehow comes from this, as two 8 ohm speakers (boomer + tweeter) in parallel render basically 4 ohm, but the crossover additional components adjusts to 8 ohm, so I wonder how this could match lower impendance drivers I plan.
Hi,
You must be confused by now. Let's see if "your info" is right?!

2x 4 ohms drivers in series (like in a cab combo/guitar) = 8 ohms
2x 16 ohms drivers in parallel 8 ohms
4x drivers (8 ohms) like in a "common cab combination" in series/parallel = 8 ohms
4x drivers (4 ohms) like in a "common cab combination" in series/parallel = 4 ohms
2x 8 ohm drivers (boomer + tweeter) in parallel = 8 ohms
2x 4 ohm drivers (boomer + tweeter) in parallel = 4 ohms

Unfortunately a call to Eminence will not save you from despair...
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 07:53 AM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
Hi,
You must be confused by now. Let's see if "your info" is right?!
....
2x 8 ohm drivers (boomer + tweeter) in parallel = 8 ohms
....
My case, Uh, isn't it 4 ohms without crossover ? Btw I asked Eminence for their advice.

As I think I go a dead end this way, I went in more alternative speakers to fit my requirements, so sharing with people, here is the bassman geas :
Rock frequency curve : linear 100-1k, maybe scooped, 2k peak, high Db rendering
Light : ideally under 3kg, over 5 kg : no way !
Cheap : 130 bucks, 200 in just got paid mood

Speakers in this range :
Eminence Basslite C2515 - nice curve - 2,6kg - 170 - 4 ohm
Celestion BL15 400x - nice curve - 4,9kg - 120 - 8 ohm
Celestion BN15 400x - nice curve - 2,6kg - 220 (several offers at 330) - 8 ohm
Sica 15BP 2.5 CS - small 2k kick - 5,4kg - 75 - 8 ohm
Sica 15BS 2.5 PL - nice scooped curve - 3,3 kg - 130 - 8 ohm

Celestion BN15 surges ahead as there's a 300 model alternative, a bit less expensive, lighter, but difficult to find, dealing a 300w max output enough for my config. Sica I never heard before is an interresting option with the Neodym model.

Just need now a 8 ohm crossover matching the frequencies, tuto here allow to achieve this
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 08:25 AM   #14
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
system7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
I really don't know what the question is here. A dedicated bass driver of this sort is not going to be easy to integrate with any sort of tweeter IMO. Question of complexity of the filter required and low crossover point. That peak at 1.5kHz is problematic. I expect it falls off if the speaker isn't pointing directly at you, and the overall power delivery is fairly flat, but still...

What did Eminence say?

I don't want to write an essay on how filters work, but with a single bass driver, you need an 8 ohm bass driver for sure.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Eminence Basslite C2515 4 ohms.JPG (53.1 KB, 76 views)
__________________
Well, there it is! Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

Last edited by system7; 20th April 2014 at 08:40 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 10:00 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Thanks, no more question at this point, I'll go for a 8 ohm speaker.

I just shared some information on specificity of bass guitar speakers. The constrainst we have is to mix with other instruments and singer, deal with the room or outdoor we play, the assistance... Any "accident" in the sound produced becomes personality in such context and helps sustaining our play

Don't know much about crossover design in bass amplifiers, the markbass amplifier I own has this one :
Click the image to open in full size.

Considering my extension cab I'll put a Celestion BN15-300x
Click the image to open in full size.
along with a Monacor Ht30 tweeter,
Click the image to open in full size.
the crossover point will be around 4,5 kHz, could have been 2,6kHz with a C2515.

I'll go for a 1st or 2nd order crossover
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 10:27 AM   #16
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
system7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
You're actually posting the 4 ohm version of the Celestion Bass - BN15-300X - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers, but the 8 ohm isn't far different.

The MONACOR INTERNATIONAL : HT-30 seems to recommend 5kHz 2nd order.

Complete guess, but I'd think a 0.5-1.0mH coil on the bass, and something like 3.3uF and 0.3mH on the tweeter plus any attenuation required would be a start.

No idea if the levels will match, and you're gonna let in a lot of cone breakup from the bass, but it's probably about the best you can do.
__________________
Well, there it is! Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 12:05 PM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Inductor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cascais
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourettes View Post
Rock frequency curve : linear 100-1k, maybe scooped, 2k peak, high Db rendering
- nice scooped curve -
...
I know it might be difficult to explain, but don't you need a driver with a ""good linearity""
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 12:20 PM   #18
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

A bass combo can have an external speaker socket.

If the internal speaker remains connected and an 8 ohm
extension is required, then the amplifier load is 4 ohm.
The extension cab is best built with identical drivers
and box to the 8ohm that are in the combo.
It will go 4 to 5 dB louder with the extension.

If the internal speaker is disconnected and an 8ohm
extension is required, you cannot use a 4 ohm driver
as the extension. You want 8 ohm and a better bigger
driver and box for the extension to make it worthwhile.

If you have the former case and want to build a bigger
and better box, its easy to change the speaker socket
so that the internal speaker is disconnected. You can
then use a bigger, better external 4 ohm cabinet,
or two 8 ohm extension speakers in parallel.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow

Last edited by sreten; 20th April 2014 at 12:24 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 01:26 PM   #19
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

Also FWIW electric bass combo's never have
a x/o on the bass unit, only on the tweeter,
very often the tweeters are peizo, and x/o
design for them is not straightforward.

If a combo has a tweeter and the extension cabinet
is used in parallel, you can omit the tweeter from
the extension cabinet, and add a switch to boost
the tweeter level, or add an L-pad for variable
tweeter level, if either option is really needed.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2014, 06:22 PM   #20
4Torr is offline 4Torr  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Southern California
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
I know it might be difficult to explain, but don't you need a driver with a ""good linearity""
The speaker configuration of musical instrument amps like a Marshall or a Fender are different from monitor speakers. They are designed to create a "sound" of their own.

Many have peaks or dips in frequency response to make them "stand out" or "get out of the way" of other instruments and vocals. The band decides on the "sound" they want on stage and chooses amps for each instrument accordingly.

This mainly applies to small bands who hand carry their equipment. A major band would use stage monitors and a mixing engineer to tailor the sound of each instrument.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which Impedance for Crossover Calculation? The Nominal, the One at Crossover or? T101 Multi-Way 23 10th October 2013 02:10 AM
Crossover for different impedance drivers portreathbeach Multi-Way 34 4th October 2013 05:16 AM
Impedance Of Crossover and Tweeter The Heater Multi-Way 16 19th April 2013 11:43 AM
Crossover point and Impedance. Aguilabrava Multi-Way 20 3rd March 2012 02:50 AM
Crossover Impedance... Ignite Multi-Way 0 21st August 2001 09:23 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:38 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2