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Old 10th April 2014, 09:55 PM   #1
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Default PSE-144 horn discussions

Let's discuss this horn here rather than the gallery/list thread. Thanks.

Quote:
Dear Santa Claus,
I want to see both raw and normalized graphics. If on-axis spl is shown, directivity sonogram can be just the normalized version. I'd like to see both 1/3oct and 1/12 or 1/24 smoothing too because I want to see the forest and trees. Impulse gating must be told too, this is very important specially when measurements are done how most of us are usually doing it, behind closed doors. Sometimes I also want to see unsmoothed response measurements of various angles horizontally and vertically, with various gating - sort of hardcore for the late hours...
Link:
redspade-audio.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/pse-144-launch-update.html

Pics:
Click the image to open in full size.

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Polar Plot:
Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 11th April 2014, 03:51 PM   #2
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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From the "Great Horn List" thread
Great Waveguide List :

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
That is exactly what I do want to see.

I do not want to separate the response from the directivity. They are intimately coupled in the real world and that's the way I want to see it.
I think what Noah is getting at is that the directivity is a property of the waveguide that cannot be fixed via EQ. A normalized color polar graph shows the best you could get if you were to EQ a design for perfectly flat response from the waveguide at some angle.

The EQ and crossover can get into the response from a single driver, but not into the directivity. If I were to consider a waveguide for a design, I would want to know what it's radiation pattern was before I did a crossover/eq for it.
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Old 11th April 2014, 05:50 PM   #3
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I find it impossible to tell where the -6db contour line is. Can we get some more resolution in the measurement or a better explanation of the color values in the existing plot?? I read the description on the site and looking at the posted measurements the directivity looks complex over the range specified from 250Hz and up. With the narrowing at 900Hz just how deep in db are those notches?? They could be a limiting factor as far as specifying the width out to 80 degrees. It that happening at -8db first heavy black line from 0?? Am I reading the plot correctly??

Is that a normalized plot or the actual measured directivity??

Thanks

Rob
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Old 11th April 2014, 08:33 PM   #4
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
I find it impossible to tell where the -6db contour line is. Can we get some more resolution in the measurement or a better explanation of the color values in the existing plot?? I read the description on the site and looking at the posted measurements the directivity looks complex over the range specified from 250Hz and up. With the narrowing at 900Hz just how deep in db are those notches?? They could be a limiting factor as far as specifying the width out to 80 degrees. It that happening at -8db first heavy black line from 0?? Am I reading the plot correctly??

Is that a normalized plot or the actual measured directivity??

Thanks

Rob
Here is Paul's response:

Great Waveguide List



Honestly though, it's nearly useless, and looking through Arta's own documentation it doesn't have to be:

http://www.artalabs.hr/AppNotes/AP6_...EngRev1.01.pdf

However, the doubled-up "Red" ranges between dark red and orange are further obfuscating detail. This basically means that anything referenced to a average range in red is going to have double the scale of the rest of the graph.

Another problem is a "lower" limit of 1/12 averaging, which frankly should be as high as 1/64th. (..the higher, the less averaging that occurs - or the more "raw" the response is: having more detail.)


As for normalization:

Paul states that it is, and it certainly looks normalized on 0 degree axis - with a tell-tale "flat" (or perfectly linear) response at 0 degrees (or the middle of the plot). (It's easier to see in the directivity plot (as opposed to the color sonogram).)


Normalization as a baseline is horrible. Look through the Arta documentation to see the differences.
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Old 22nd April 2014, 10:32 AM   #5
3GGG is offline 3GGG  Australia
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any progress or frequency plots yet?
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Old 22nd April 2014, 11:38 AM   #6
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Has there been any offical word if this horn is licensed by Danley Sound Labs? Is there, or should there be concern of patent infringement? I think this is a legitment question that is fair to ask. I'd like things on the forum to always be on the up-and-up.
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Old 22nd April 2014, 08:03 PM   #7
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLH View Post
Has there been any offical word if this horn is licensed by Danley Sound Labs? Is there, or should there be concern of patent infringement? I think this is a legitment question that is fair to ask. I'd like things on the forum to always be on the up-and-up.
Yeah, I always do a quick mental "up-take" when I see something like this.

For the DIY community however, Tom's been exceedingly generous - so my thought is that it's "sanctioned" (if perhaps not licensed).



There are however other instances where it just doesn't pass the "smell test": specifically those not of a DIY nature that are expressly "commercialized".


Here is one that bothers me:

ULTIMA! - dynamikks

Of course Dynamikks might have a licensing agreement, or it might not even be legally necessary (..given the potential for some patent limitations between US and other foreign jurisdictions like Germany.)

Don't know, but once I saw it I did that mental: WTF?
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Old 23rd April 2014, 02:00 AM   #8
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Fair points I guess. I have no ideas about it so we'll let the relevant people answer.

I'm more interested in hearing them to be honest. I've heard the Danley's original unity horn and also Synergy (Yorkville?) and really love them. Very clever (genius?) approach.

How about those dynamikks.. looks mean !

Click the image to open in full size.

Although I love DIY, seeing the building of these types of pyramid construction really put me off... various angles and all. Not something one could finish in an afternoon! ... If I really have the space I think it's worth to buy a 'finished' horn be it the real unity or similar iterations.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 04:30 AM   #9
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gainphile View Post

How about those dynamikks.. looks mean !
They all look like variations on modernist sink basins to me..

-and I'll take the more "organic" look of the PSE-144 (..assuming it's reasonably linear, which unfortunately it doesn't appear to me to be).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg flat-sinks.jpg (65.2 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg kohler_k_2952_n_58_2967.jpg (12.9 KB, 122 views)
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Old 23rd April 2014, 10:49 AM   #10
JLH is offline JLH  United States
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Oh no Scott! See what you've done. Now people are going to start attaching compression drivers to sinks.
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