Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way
Home Forums Rules Articles Store Gallery Blogs Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th January 2004, 07:58 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Default Please explain "Q"

I am confused on what Q is, and how it affects the final product. I believe this affects the Qtc of a box, but am not sure what Qtc value is optimal.

Can someone explain this in "laymens" terms, or give me a link to a site that isn't too techincal.

Thanks!
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2004, 08:08 PM   #2
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Blog Entries: 1
It's the inverse of damping; the higher the Q, the lower the damping. Which value is "best" depends on a lot of things, including your taste. A Q of 0.707 is maximally flat. A Q of 0.577 rolls off sooner, but has better phase characteristics. A Q of 1.0 has a bump up in the bass before rolloff and can sound punchier. And so on. There's nothing "magic" about these particular numbers.

As an aside, Qtc refers to the Q of a closed-box speaker- not just the box, but the box/driver combination.

Vance Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook has some illuminating charts. You ought to own that book.
__________________
“Listening to records is like ****ing a picture of Brigitte Bardot.” - Sergiu Celibidache
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2004, 08:16 PM   #3
Ron E is offline Ron E  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Ron E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: USA, MN
Q = (energy stored)/(energy dissipated)

Qts is the free-air Q of the woofer, Qtc is the closed box Q of the speaker/box system. Qtc of between 0.5 and 1 are best for speakers, and 0.707 gives the lowest F3 and flattest 2pi response.

Qtc=Qts*sqrt(Vas/Vb+1)
Vb=Vas/((Qtc/Qts)^2-1)

Higher Q gives more power handling because the smaller volume behind the driver acts like a stiffer spring.

Q of up to 1.5 is listenable, especially in a car. I have a friend with Qtc=1.3 woofers in his car and he thinks they are really tight.

People will try to tell you that 0.5 is better than 0.7 or 1 based on their half-understood notion of "critical damping", but the differences are very subtle and mostly not worth the increase in box size needed for the lower Q.
__________________
Our species needs, and deserves, a citizenry with minds wide awake and a basic understanding of how the world works. --Carl Sagan
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. --Carl Sagan
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2004, 08:22 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Thanks for your quick response!

I purchased the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook, but found it is very technical and assumes some previous knowledge.

When you say a Q of 0.707 is maximally flat, are you referring to the Q of the speaker itself, or the Qtc?

Are there specific values that are better suited for different environments, such as music versus home theatre, or is it just personal taste?

Also, are these different values very distinct to the ear?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2004, 08:27 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Ron E

Than you for the formula. That is helpful.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2004, 08:50 PM   #6
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Blog Entries: 1
"Maximally flat" normally refers to the Q of a speaker-box system.
__________________
“Listening to records is like ****ing a picture of Brigitte Bardot.” - Sergiu Celibidache
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2004, 09:01 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Timn8ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Nobody is going to go for the 007 joke?
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2004, 09:08 PM   #8
Bose(o) is offline Bose(o)  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Music Qtc will probably be from 0.7-1.0 or higher, as people usually prefer quick and tight bass response for music--holding onto the accuracy part. HT may prefer 0.5-0.7. Right now I have a Shiva in a 53L. enclosure yielding a Qtc=0.75 which is fine for an all around enclosure. Also, Power requirements increase as Qtc increases..and vice versa.
__________________
ERTW 4 life!
"the day has 24hours. If that is not enough take the night."-Roemhild
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2004, 12:04 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Thanks for everyones help! This has been very helpfull.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2004, 01:18 PM   #10
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
There is some misinformation here :

The practical range of Qtc is 0.5 to 1.1 for a sealed box.

Q=0.7 gives a maximally flat Butterworth alignment.
Q=0.5 gives a critically damped alignment no overshoot.
Q=0.6 gives a maximally flat delay Bessel characteristic.
Q=1.0 gives a 1dB ripple/peak before roll-off, Chebyshev.

Q below 0.7 is generally regarded as a damped alignment,
the lower the Q the better the transient response.

Q above 0.7 is generally regarded as an under-damped
alignment, maximising the amount of bass and F3.

The lower Q values are suited to hifi sub-woofers.
The medium Q values are suited to speakers and subs.
The higher Q values are common in cheap speakers
and home theatre sub-woofers.

However I would note that very often a 4th order reflex
alignment is chosen nowadays over higher Q sealed
alignments, 0.9 to 1.1.

I'd regard 0.6 and 0.9 as the minimum and maximum
sensible values to use for a sealed box speaker.

sreten.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What makes an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"? JohnS Solid State 51 13th December 2009 06:42 PM
Can someone explain the theory behind "sound reinforcement drivers"? Cal Weldon PA Systems 30 18th December 2007 11:18 PM
Anyone please explain"What is an A1,A2 in SE amp? Triod lover Tubes / Valves 8 9th November 2006 02:05 PM
Some final pics of "Stacks" revisited and "Askew" with stand Andy G Multi-Way 2 3rd February 2005 06:07 AM
Anyone used Scan-Speak's "Flow Resistors" or "Aperiodic Vents"? Ignite Multi-Way 3 18th November 2001 08:42 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:04 PM.

Page generated in 0.10453 seconds (78.21% PHP - 21.79% MySQL) with 11 queries

Copyright ©1999-2012 diyAudio