Hi folks.
In the imminence of me finishing my first cross over, I am already thinking about constructing a living room set, for stereo music listening and movies.
The set I have in my living room is pretty rudimentary, no calculations, no cross-over, just a 8 inch woofer with a CTS/Motorola piezo thrown in these sealed cases.
Now the time is arriving, to come up with some pretty decent project.
My first issue is the kind of drivers I might purchase... I want a decent 2-way set consisting in:
1 x 8 inches woofer
1 x real tweeter (not piezo)
So I want recommendations, as in brand. Also I have a budget. I need to get the best woofer possible within the price range of $40.00 and $65.00. And a tweeter within the price range of up to $22.00. (price/each).
I am currently looking at JBL, Selenium, Hinor... but I'd like a brand that is available in Brazil. Some of the mentioned just now are available, but I don't know if they can be as competitive with other manufacturers around the world.
Like I said, my usage will be at home, with movies and music. I don't need much power. I usually listen to music a bit loud in the environment (kinda like 90dB) and my power amp is very modest, with less than 10 RMS each side (it's an old one and never felt the need to replace it since it has a 5-band built in equalizer and sounds so good).
One more thing to consider is that I am not a "mid-range" guy. I usually like to remove the mid frequencies in the EQ so it sounds more pleasant. But I have also read about having a system that will pleasantly output everything naturally (not sure what it means) so it is perfect even without EQ adjustments or EQ present in the system.
So, ok... I am starting this project. Need drivers recommendations. I am not looking for outrageous products and am not picky about getting the best or more expensive. The cabinets I imagine I am doing are about 18 (Height) x 11 (Width) x 9.5 (Length) inches each. Wanna go a little smaller from what I have now, because there is no point having a cabinet this huge with non-optimized audio.
If you know any speakers that will fit in this mission, please advice.
Thanks for answers!
In the imminence of me finishing my first cross over, I am already thinking about constructing a living room set, for stereo music listening and movies.
The set I have in my living room is pretty rudimentary, no calculations, no cross-over, just a 8 inch woofer with a CTS/Motorola piezo thrown in these sealed cases.
Now the time is arriving, to come up with some pretty decent project.
My first issue is the kind of drivers I might purchase... I want a decent 2-way set consisting in:
1 x 8 inches woofer
1 x real tweeter (not piezo)
So I want recommendations, as in brand. Also I have a budget. I need to get the best woofer possible within the price range of $40.00 and $65.00. And a tweeter within the price range of up to $22.00. (price/each).
I am currently looking at JBL, Selenium, Hinor... but I'd like a brand that is available in Brazil. Some of the mentioned just now are available, but I don't know if they can be as competitive with other manufacturers around the world.
Like I said, my usage will be at home, with movies and music. I don't need much power. I usually listen to music a bit loud in the environment (kinda like 90dB) and my power amp is very modest, with less than 10 RMS each side (it's an old one and never felt the need to replace it since it has a 5-band built in equalizer and sounds so good).
One more thing to consider is that I am not a "mid-range" guy. I usually like to remove the mid frequencies in the EQ so it sounds more pleasant. But I have also read about having a system that will pleasantly output everything naturally (not sure what it means) so it is perfect even without EQ adjustments or EQ present in the system.
So, ok... I am starting this project. Need drivers recommendations. I am not looking for outrageous products and am not picky about getting the best or more expensive. The cabinets I imagine I am doing are about 18 (Height) x 11 (Width) x 9.5 (Length) inches each. Wanna go a little smaller from what I have now, because there is no point having a cabinet this huge with non-optimized audio.
If you know any speakers that will fit in this mission, please advice.
Thanks for answers!
Your post mentions you presently use a sealed case, 8 inch driver without crossover as a result of piezo tweeter. Well you have arrived at a few good ideas ie the sealed case and 8 inch driver. The little Acoustic Research AR7 which is a 1970's speaker offers very good bass response as a result of being in a sealed enclosure and being a acoustic suspension speaker. If looking for one of these try and source one with the cloth type surround as the foam ones soon rot away. but your 10 watts might need rethink as they are happy with 50 watt amps upward.
As regard individual drivers JBL are very good, as are AR. Occasionally you can get a different brand tweeter to work better than the brand of woofer you choose, for instance the Polk brand of drivers particularly their tweeters are excellent.
Speakers unless they are full range electrostatics, are all about enclosures and how air enclosed is used with the bass driver, the enclosure being matched ideally to the bass driver. The crossover too playing a major role in presenting a pleasant load to your amplifier whilst adequately allowing each driver to function as intended with its designated frequency range.
Best luck with your search
Cheers / Chris
As regard individual drivers JBL are very good, as are AR. Occasionally you can get a different brand tweeter to work better than the brand of woofer you choose, for instance the Polk brand of drivers particularly their tweeters are excellent.
Speakers unless they are full range electrostatics, are all about enclosures and how air enclosed is used with the bass driver, the enclosure being matched ideally to the bass driver. The crossover too playing a major role in presenting a pleasant load to your amplifier whilst adequately allowing each driver to function as intended with its designated frequency range.
Best luck with your search
Cheers / Chris
Last edited:
You will have problems getting most tweeters at that price to play low enough to meet an 8" woofer effectively. The closest I know of are my MAX design, which use a Vifa DX25, and the HiVi M8N. The tweeter is a touch more than the price but not much at least in the states. I imagine there are sellers of these in Brazil, but I have not tried to locate them.
The xover and cabinets' design are already done this way if you go this route.
MAX Photos by wolf_teeth_speaker | Photobucket
I can link the build thread if you like, as there is lots to this design. I will also add that the imp-phase is a little more capacitive than some others due to the nature of the filter design. If you have a high current amplifier you should be fine.
Let me know if you have any questions,
Wolf
We have JBL here, as I said. Their current website is here:
JBL bought Selenium (respected national brand) in 2010. I assume I can expect the same quality as JBL international products, right?
JBL SELENIUM
There are lots of products and many types of woofers.
Most of them are commercialized in Brazil, so any suggestions in here are welcome, regardless of price.
Here's what caught my attention:
JBL SELENIUM
JBL SELENIUM
There is literally lots of woofers. Many are not acoustic suspension, just a few. I wonder why.
JBL bought Selenium (respected national brand) in 2010. I assume I can expect the same quality as JBL international products, right?
JBL SELENIUM
There are lots of products and many types of woofers.
Most of them are commercialized in Brazil, so any suggestions in here are welcome, regardless of price.
Here's what caught my attention:
JBL SELENIUM
JBL SELENIUM
There is literally lots of woofers. Many are not acoustic suspension, just a few. I wonder why.
Krafty, I know you can get Eminence drivers in Brazil. Why not build a high efficiency One Pi speaker?
Pi Speakers, one Pi speaker
Wayne Parham will email you the plans:
AudioRoundTable.com: Pi Speakers
It uses the Eminence 8 alpha Speaker. Earlier models used a bullet tweeter, but he now favours a soft dome. I think you could fit anything you fancy really. I'd fancy something like this: TW 70 - 8 Ohm.
I've built this sort of 20L 8 inch reflex speaker.
It's not hard and it sounds nice, also loud for a few watts. You can tune the crossover by ear IMO.
Pi Speakers, one Pi speaker
Wayne Parham will email you the plans:
AudioRoundTable.com: Pi Speakers
It uses the Eminence 8 alpha Speaker. Earlier models used a bullet tweeter, but he now favours a soft dome. I think you could fit anything you fancy really. I'd fancy something like this: TW 70 - 8 Ohm.
I've built this sort of 20L 8 inch reflex speaker.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It's not hard and it sounds nice, also loud for a few watts. You can tune the crossover by ear IMO.
Last edited:
Acoustic suspension is an excellent way of reducing cabinet size, and providing extended bass response with low distortion.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/195655-what-killed-off-acoustic-suspension-speaker.html
Edgar Villchur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A box shape that has dimensions 18 inches by 11 inches by 9.5 inches has a volume of:
= 1.0885 cubic feet = 30.824 liters (gross)
If using Marine Plywood thickness - 21mm (15ply)
Volume in Liters: 19.6 L
Driver 8" (displacement): 1 L
------------------------------------
Total enclosure internal volume available: 18.6 L (net)
Then you have to go shop in your country if you don't want to overpay for taxes and postage overseas. Links: (go to Google or window shopping)
ALTO-FALANTE PROFISSIONAL BRAVOX ALTO-FALANTE PROFISSIONAL JBL SELENIUM ALTO-FALANTE PROFISSIONAL OKSN ALTO-FALANTE PROFISSIONAL OVERSOUND
Selenium 8PW7
JBL SELENIUM
http://www.jblselenium.com.br/marcas/upload/1611dd4af9dfc0ebe82a8899d9bbbf82.pdf
Selenium 8PW3 / 8PW3-SLF*
http://www.jblselenium.com.br/marcas/upload/92bfa5f243b04dbb0f536749ec68ef94.pdf
Selenium 8MB4P
JBL SELENIUM
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/8MB4P_SpecSheet.pdf
Selenium 8MB4P 8" Woofer / Midbass Speaker | 264-466
Selenium 8W16P
http://www.jblselenium.com/marcas/upload/de16ebb8cf6919c7f7c3417862c5fcc6.pdf
Selenium 8PX
JBL SELENIUM
http://www.jblselenium.com.br/marcas/upload/e8797c38575fd3f1a0638aef451e3229.pdf
Selenium 8W4P
http://www.jblselenium.com/marcas/upload/2c793fcc52401f6ca10033652f07c08e.pdf
Selenium 8W4P 8" Woofer | 264-424
All the above drivers are for sale online (above link).
Selenium 8MB4P 8" Woofer / Midbass Speaker
Selenium 8W16P
These 2 would be my selection but again would have to check and recheck for correct enclosure/alignment/crossover/tweeter what is to say a new project or follow similar one. Now you know what's the space/volume of the speaker. You will just have to find your "Cinderella" driver.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/252559-bg20-fake-druid.html
Selenium 8MB4P can fit in a relative small enclosure ... here is a simulation with a box of 18LTS - Sealed box with fill to lower the QTC ... but the results aren't good, high QTC and F3 (very bad bass response)
These JBL Selenium drivers all seem to have very high Qts, which does make for problems with small boxes, and I don't think they are designed for that application. But some of it is actually the nature of this type of speaker. You simply have to lower your expectations of deep bass with cloth surround high efficiency drivers. You might not want the bigger magnet versions either, which are moving away from the concept of an easy to filter Le around 0.6mH, IMO. They usually have a low Xmax too, and don't have a lot of excursion in the bass.
I got lucky with this Sony cloth surround driver:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It has only a very light transparent cloth dustcap, as opposed to some of the more solid paper ones. You can see the magnet through it.
Troels did something similar to my own light filter with this Supravox 8" driver. He missed a trick by not using a KEF type third order tweeter filter wired in negative polarity though, hence the need for a waveguide in his experiments to line up the acoustic centres better:
Supravox 215GMFHow to tweak this driver to better performance
THIS is how you do it, IMO, It's easy:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/245917-diy-kef-celestion-6.html#post3868470
8 inch bass is a very difficult one to get sounding nice without the KEF filter trick. It's the phase problem with a big woofer. What sort of tweeter you use depends on what you think sounds nice. It depresses me that people always seem to follow the conventional wisdom and go out and buy soft domes without really noticing how harsh and bad they sound though.
The problem here is that the OP will not end buying what he wants because of foreign taxes. So the best thing is to spend his money wisely in a kit of considerable quality for a low price.
BR-1 Kit Components | 300-641 (for $130.86)
Kit includes:
Two Dayton Audio DC160-8 6-1/2" woofers
Two Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" silk dome tweeters
Two crossover boards
Two 47 µF non-polarized capacitors
Two Dayton Audio 0.1 µF by-pass capacitors
Two 8 ohm 10W resistors
Two 1.8 mH 18 AWG air core inductors
Four Dayton Audio 6.2 µF polypropylene capacitors
Two 4 ohm 5W resistors
Two 10 ohm 5W resistors
Two 0.5 mH 20 AWG air core inductors
One 8 ft. 16 AWG speaker wire
Twenty-four .205" (16-14 AWG) female disconnects
Two 24" x 18" sheets of acoustic foam, 1-1/2" thick
Twenty-two #6 x 3/4" Phillips pan head screws
Speaker terminal cups NOT included
More Parts Express Speaker Kits here
-------------------------------------------
Other interesting drivers from overseas (some more expensive).
Dayton Audio RS225S-8 8"
Dayton Audio RS225-8 8" Reference Woofer 8 Ohm
Amazon.com: Dayton Audio RS225-8 8" Reference Woofer: Electronics
Vifa P21W0-20-08 Woofer
Vifa P21W0-20-08 Woofer
http://www.madisound.com/store/manuals/p21wo20-08.pdf
ScanSpeak Classic 21W/8555-00
The Madisound Speaker Store
Monacor SPH-200KE
SPH-200KE
Monacor SPH-200KE
Monacor SPH-200KE Kevlar Cone 8 inch HiFi Woofer from Monacor 75.01 IN STOCK (5 Apr 2014)
Seas L22RNX/P
H1252-08 L22RNX/P
Seas L22RNX/P H1252-08 Woofer - Prestige Series Woofer
Seas Excel W22EX001
E0022-08S W22EX001
Seas W22EX001 E0022 Linkwitz LX521 & Orion Woofer
BR-1 Kit Components | 300-641 (for $130.86)
Kit includes:
Two Dayton Audio DC160-8 6-1/2" woofers
Two Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" silk dome tweeters
Two crossover boards
Two 47 µF non-polarized capacitors
Two Dayton Audio 0.1 µF by-pass capacitors
Two 8 ohm 10W resistors
Two 1.8 mH 18 AWG air core inductors
Four Dayton Audio 6.2 µF polypropylene capacitors
Two 4 ohm 5W resistors
Two 10 ohm 5W resistors
Two 0.5 mH 20 AWG air core inductors
One 8 ft. 16 AWG speaker wire
Twenty-four .205" (16-14 AWG) female disconnects
Two 24" x 18" sheets of acoustic foam, 1-1/2" thick
Twenty-two #6 x 3/4" Phillips pan head screws
Speaker terminal cups NOT included
More Parts Express Speaker Kits here
-------------------------------------------
Other interesting drivers from overseas (some more expensive).
Dayton Audio RS225S-8 8"
Dayton Audio RS225-8 8" Reference Woofer 8 Ohm
Amazon.com: Dayton Audio RS225-8 8" Reference Woofer: Electronics
Vifa P21W0-20-08 Woofer
Vifa P21W0-20-08 Woofer
http://www.madisound.com/store/manuals/p21wo20-08.pdf
ScanSpeak Classic 21W/8555-00
The Madisound Speaker Store
Monacor SPH-200KE
SPH-200KE
Monacor SPH-200KE
Monacor SPH-200KE Kevlar Cone 8 inch HiFi Woofer from Monacor 75.01 IN STOCK (5 Apr 2014)
Seas L22RNX/P
H1252-08 L22RNX/P
Seas L22RNX/P H1252-08 Woofer - Prestige Series Woofer
Seas Excel W22EX001
E0022-08S W22EX001
Seas W22EX001 E0022 Linkwitz LX521 & Orion Woofer
I'm a bit dubious about a 6" driver with a 10W per channel amp, Inductor. They DO tend to be inefficient! It's down to the large coil you need and the nature of 6" drivers.
I've built a lot of variations on the 8 inch bass theme, Here with a typical sort of rubber surround bass:
Morel CAT 298 soft dome tweeter. Not exactly smooth and unfatiguing. Usual spit and sizzle.
Mylar dome tweeter. Quite nice but a bit BRIGHT at times.
8 inch bass IS efficient in general. I don't have a particular preference really. They all work quite well. Lots of bass for sure.
I really don't notice the theoretical lack of dispersion around 3kHz crossover. It's a sweet high efficiency design.
I'd be willing to take on almost any 8 inch bass driver.
60W 8in Shielded Bass Mid Range Speaker | Maplin
80W 8in Shielded Bass Mid Range Speaker | Maplin
These are cheap Chinese imports. But i think I could do something with either. The smaller magnet version would need less filtering.
I can particular commend a simple tweeter like this Monacor HT22/8. It sounds very good on a third order filter:
HT-22/8
You've probably never heard a cone tweeter with a good sophisticated crossover, as opposed to the usual simple cap, but they sound SO NATURAL when done properly!
I've built a lot of variations on the 8 inch bass theme, Here with a typical sort of rubber surround bass:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Morel CAT 298 soft dome tweeter. Not exactly smooth and unfatiguing. Usual spit and sizzle.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Mylar dome tweeter. Quite nice but a bit BRIGHT at times.
8 inch bass IS efficient in general. I don't have a particular preference really. They all work quite well. Lots of bass for sure.
I really don't notice the theoretical lack of dispersion around 3kHz crossover. It's a sweet high efficiency design.
I'd be willing to take on almost any 8 inch bass driver.
60W 8in Shielded Bass Mid Range Speaker | Maplin
80W 8in Shielded Bass Mid Range Speaker | Maplin
These are cheap Chinese imports. But i think I could do something with either. The smaller magnet version would need less filtering.
I can particular commend a simple tweeter like this Monacor HT22/8. It sounds very good on a third order filter:
HT-22/8
You've probably never heard a cone tweeter with a good sophisticated crossover, as opposed to the usual simple cap, but they sound SO NATURAL when done properly!
Last edited:
Your very best link was already posted for the OP.
Pi Speakers - Prices, Dimensions and Specifications ($180-00 for 2x one Pi bass reflex kits)
Pi Speakers - Prices, Dimensions and Specifications ($180-00 for 2x one Pi bass reflex kits)
AFAIK, Wayne Parham of Pi Speakers uses a second order and Zobel on the bass for a SET suitable flattish impedance on the Eminence Alpha 8 driver and crosses over at a lowish 2kHz to a third order treble with positive polarity on the wiring. It would need a good tweeter to pull that off, IMO.
But building kits isn't really my idea of diy audio at all.
The Sony E44 originally used just a 2.2uF non-polar capacitor on the mylar dome wired positive. That was it!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A bit Mickey Mouse IMO. It sounded merely OK. I adapted the much better KEF type circuit below for it. I got away with 0.7mH and 8.2uF on the bass. The filter is like this.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Very good sounding speaker. I give an analysis below. 5kHz Bass cone breakup is well controlled. No-one will be interested in the phase plot except me, I expect. But it's EXCELLENT at crossover.
Attachments
I thought I would share the current state of my cabinet:
I did some tweaking today on these drivers. Added a series 11R/20W resistor and replaced the series 4.7uF bipolar capacitor for a 100V polyester one. I was wondering what kind of coil filter I would need for the woofer (8HTS500 - datasheet).
I noticed improvements already... piezo not that bright as it was, and allowed me to now bring up mediums from the hardware equalizer - the previous setup was making the piezo deal with a great amount of medium frequencies - that is why I could not tolerate the mediums in the hardware equalizer!
But as I was doing this, I was thinking... why NOT use this same cabinet with the new drivers? I would have no work at all around the cabinet besides lacquering or painting it brand new. All I would have to pick is the exact woofer and tweeter to fit in here. The portuguese folk hinted this case might be 19 Liters net. I will measure it from inside.
Does the foam inside the cabinet affect this measure or is a cabinet like this supposed to work without any foam at all? Because in practice, if you foam stuff into it, there is less space....
By the way, the BR-1 Kit components looks very affordable! Thanks Inductor. Will look into this.
I did some tweaking today on these drivers. Added a series 11R/20W resistor and replaced the series 4.7uF bipolar capacitor for a 100V polyester one. I was wondering what kind of coil filter I would need for the woofer (8HTS500 - datasheet).
I noticed improvements already... piezo not that bright as it was, and allowed me to now bring up mediums from the hardware equalizer - the previous setup was making the piezo deal with a great amount of medium frequencies - that is why I could not tolerate the mediums in the hardware equalizer!
But as I was doing this, I was thinking... why NOT use this same cabinet with the new drivers? I would have no work at all around the cabinet besides lacquering or painting it brand new. All I would have to pick is the exact woofer and tweeter to fit in here. The portuguese folk hinted this case might be 19 Liters net. I will measure it from inside.
Does the foam inside the cabinet affect this measure or is a cabinet like this supposed to work without any foam at all? Because in practice, if you foam stuff into it, there is less space....
By the way, the BR-1 Kit components looks very affordable! Thanks Inductor. Will look into this.
Last edited:
I've looked at the Dayton RS225-8 and its specifications are listing a 12,4 Litre cabinet as optimal. I would have to eliminate about 6 to 7 liters from this cabinet. Perhaps placing another plywood inside it or maybe even reducing height or placing the front plywood inwards so it gets notched enough.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.