This is mostly a thought exercise, but if you wanted to make a cheap version of Linkwitz's Orion, which I'll call orion's belt (as in the old saying of tighten one's belt) which drivers would you chosen to replace the following:
Tweeter - Seas T25CF002 1" dome
Midrange - Seas W22EX001 8" mid bass
Woofers - two Peerless 10" XLS, 830452
Off the top of my head, meaning I'm thinking these up right now, so I won't be about to give you exact model numbers, nor will they necessarily be the best choices:
Tweeter - Dayton's new "european tweeter"
Midrange - Seas aluminum standard line 8"
Woofers - two Standard line Peerless 10"
Tweeter - Seas T25CF002 1" dome
Midrange - Seas W22EX001 8" mid bass
Woofers - two Peerless 10" XLS, 830452
Off the top of my head, meaning I'm thinking these up right now, so I won't be about to give you exact model numbers, nor will they necessarily be the best choices:
Tweeter - Dayton's new "european tweeter"
Midrange - Seas aluminum standard line 8"
Woofers - two Standard line Peerless 10"
hmmm...over 100 views and not a single reply?
maybe links will help?
the real orion can be studied here:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm
as for the drivers, here are the original:
Tweeter - Seas T25CF002 1" dome--
http://www.seas.no/excel_line/excel/E 011.PDF
Midrange - Seas W22EX001 8" mid bass--
http://www.seas.no/excel_line/excel/E0022.pdf
Woofers - two Peerless 10" XLS, 830452--
http://www.d-s-t.com/peerless/data/830452.htm
and maybe some cheap alternatives:
Tweeter - Dayton's new "european tweeter" --
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...&St3=35518241&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=122562&DID=7
Midrange - Seas aluminum standard line 8"--
http://www.seas.no/seas_line/woofers/H1252.pdf
Woofers - two Standard line Peerless 10"--
http://www.d-s-t.com/peerless/data/831727.htm
maybe links will help?
the real orion can be studied here:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm
as for the drivers, here are the original:
Tweeter - Seas T25CF002 1" dome--
http://www.seas.no/excel_line/excel/E 011.PDF
Midrange - Seas W22EX001 8" mid bass--
http://www.seas.no/excel_line/excel/E0022.pdf
Woofers - two Peerless 10" XLS, 830452--
http://www.d-s-t.com/peerless/data/830452.htm
and maybe some cheap alternatives:
Tweeter - Dayton's new "european tweeter" --
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...&St3=35518241&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=122562&DID=7
Midrange - Seas aluminum standard line 8"--
http://www.seas.no/seas_line/woofers/H1252.pdf
Woofers - two Standard line Peerless 10"--
http://www.d-s-t.com/peerless/data/831727.htm
Re: This is mostly a thought exercise ...
Hi Mats,
this forum is about Do it yourself, not THINK it yourself.
Interest in Orion is always high here, but we have all learned, that replacing the drivers (like you seem to want) is like starting from scratch. If you feel, that the Orion is too pricey for you - which is fully understandable - you should look for less elaborated dipole projects on this site. There are lots of them.
Rudolf
Hi Mats,
this forum is about Do it yourself, not THINK it yourself.
Interest in Orion is always high here, but we have all learned, that replacing the drivers (like you seem to want) is like starting from scratch. If you feel, that the Orion is too pricey for you - which is fully understandable - you should look for less elaborated dipole projects on this site. There are lots of them.
Rudolf
Although not an Orion clone, but certainly inspired by it and the Beethoven main panel are my under contruction open dipoles which use:
Tweeter: Seas T25C001
Mid: Seas CB17RCY/P
Woofer: Cheapest 8":ers possible, will be changed to Peerless units when I have the cash.
If I were to start over I would use the same tweeter, an L22 mid and two L26 woofers.
For more info on my project you can check my speakerpage:http://www.t.kth.se/andzak54/speakersIntro.htm
Anders
Tweeter: Seas T25C001
Mid: Seas CB17RCY/P
Woofer: Cheapest 8":ers possible, will be changed to Peerless units when I have the cash.
If I were to start over I would use the same tweeter, an L22 mid and two L26 woofers.
For more info on my project you can check my speakerpage:http://www.t.kth.se/andzak54/speakersIntro.htm
Anders
AndersZ, great site and very interesting speakers! That's basically, albeit scaled down, what I was picturing when I started this thread. On your next project, the free standing one, which drivers were you thinking of using? The same ones?
Rudolf, I thought designing was a part of doing it yourself.
Kidding aside, although the cost is high for a DIY project, that isn't my deterant. (Actually I'll probably be buying the designs very soon. Building them will come some time after I have the required number of channels of amplification.) My interest in this is as you stated, "...is like starting from scratch...", except that there are some specific requirement that must be met, such as what the finished project will look like.
Also, the more I think about it, maybe I will try to create a real live orion's belt. But I need more ideas for drivers. Anyone?
Rudolf, I thought designing was a part of doing it yourself.
Kidding aside, although the cost is high for a DIY project, that isn't my deterant. (Actually I'll probably be buying the designs very soon. Building them will come some time after I have the required number of channels of amplification.) My interest in this is as you stated, "...is like starting from scratch...", except that there are some specific requirement that must be met, such as what the finished project will look like.
Also, the more I think about it, maybe I will try to create a real live orion's belt. But I need more ideas for drivers. Anyone?
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/proto.htm
edit : Bummer, seems pages B to F are no longer available
sreten.
edit : Bummer, seems pages B to F are no longer available
sreten.That page is available here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030612034511/http://linkwitzlab.com/proto.htm
It has designs B-F
http://web.archive.org/web/20030612034511/http://linkwitzlab.com/proto.htm
It has designs B-F
Thanks for the reply, sreten. I know about SL's protos, but I'm not interested in a finished design where I "paint by numbers". For that, as I stated earlier, I'm planning on getting the Orion plans.
Okay, maybe if I start by stating my new goals I won't confuse anyone anymore.
1) create a poorman's Linkwitz Orion using his enclosure, with different size cutout for the new drivers, of course.
2) follow the real orion's driver layout and sizes. therefore it will be a TMWW with the bass being 2 10" drivers, the midrange is covered with a single 8", maybe consider a 7", and the tweeter a 1".
3) the drivers must be much less costly compared to the orignally spec'ed ones. Preferably <$50.00 for each indiviual piece, excluding tax, shipping, etc.
4) get within shooting distance sound quality wise of the originals
5) willing to sacrifice max SPL.
6) must finish design by end of, oh say, summer.
Okay, maybe if I start by stating my new goals I won't confuse anyone anymore.
1) create a poorman's Linkwitz Orion using his enclosure, with different size cutout for the new drivers, of course.
2) follow the real orion's driver layout and sizes. therefore it will be a TMWW with the bass being 2 10" drivers, the midrange is covered with a single 8", maybe consider a 7", and the tweeter a 1".
3) the drivers must be much less costly compared to the orignally spec'ed ones. Preferably <$50.00 for each indiviual piece, excluding tax, shipping, etc.
4) get within shooting distance sound quality wise of the originals
5) willing to sacrifice max SPL.
6) must finish design by end of, oh say, summer.
well the obvious place to save some cash is the bass and treble
drivers.
Dayton 10" drivers for bass ? ridiculous value for money :
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-315
a little down on max SPL.
edit : perhaps not, they are a lot down on the XLS excursion.
Car audio "free air" drivers could be worth investigating though ?
Treble I'd go for any of Seas excellent value tweeters,
in the Millenium vein the 27TFFC ?
Midrange the new Seas L22RNX/P aluminium driver.
sreten.
drivers.
Dayton 10" drivers for bass ? ridiculous value for money :
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-315
a little down on max SPL.
edit : perhaps not, they are a lot down on the XLS excursion.
Car audio "free air" drivers could be worth investigating though ?
Treble I'd go for any of Seas excellent value tweeters,
in the Millenium vein the 27TFFC ?
Midrange the new Seas L22RNX/P aluminium driver.
sreten.You mentioning the dayton woofer made me take a look at the rest of PE's in house 10 inchers. I can across this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-485
it has better xmax than the one you mentioned plus, if I leave one of the coils open(its a dual VC), the Qts would be ~.76, thus requiring less eq.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-485
it has better xmax than the one you mentioned plus, if I leave one of the coils open(its a dual VC), the Qts would be ~.76, thus requiring less eq.
How about using the Vifa XT25 ring radiator as tweeter (about USD 50 ea), the Fostex FW187 as midrange (it has excellent off-axis response, and very smooth frequency response), and the Peerless SLS (not XLS) 10" or 12" for bass?
That shouldn't weigh in at too much cash, while it should also not compromise the quality of the system very much. You could even attempt the use of true first order crossovers, with the suggested midrange.
That shouldn't weigh in at too much cash, while it should also not compromise the quality of the system very much. You could even attempt the use of true first order crossovers, with the suggested midrange.
I just bought the Dayton 12" DVC version of the same series I believe you're referring to. Mine cost $38.95 or so, and at low volumes it sounds nice, but quickly bottoms out when turned up, and lacks low end bass.
It COULD be the enclosure though, I have it in a 4.22ft^3 net enclosure with a 14.5x4" port tuned to 28Hz...and yes, it's a LONG port lol.
I am overall disappointed, but hey it's only $40...
It COULD be the enclosure though, I have it in a 4.22ft^3 net enclosure with a 14.5x4" port tuned to 28Hz...and yes, it's a LONG port lol.
I am overall disappointed, but hey it's only $40...
Angel, the fostex looked great until I saw the price. Its over 120.00USD, making it way too over budget.
Well, so far for everyone following (if there is anyone at all) this is what I've come up with so far. What do you think?
SEAS 27TDFC (H1189) for the tweeter. I'd go for the H881, as I've used it before with great results, but it can't be XO'd low enough.
Peerless 850519 (217 WR 33 102 SD 4L AL) for the midrange. Its the automobile 8" CSC-X Woofer. SL praised the HDS version of this driver. Compared to the home version its got a higher qts, and more xmax. Plus flat response, and its within the budget. Drawback is the silly need for auto woofers to have a big logo on the dust cap.
As for the bass units, not too sure about this pick, but the peerless 850146 ( 257 SWR 39 115 SDX 4L AL). It the CSC-X home 10" Woofer. Its got decent xmax, and 22~23hz FS. On the negative is low qts and slightly above budget.
Well, feel free to shoot down my choices, as long as you tell me why.
Cheers,
Mats
Well, so far for everyone following (if there is anyone at all) this is what I've come up with so far. What do you think?
SEAS 27TDFC (H1189) for the tweeter. I'd go for the H881, as I've used it before with great results, but it can't be XO'd low enough.
Peerless 850519 (217 WR 33 102 SD 4L AL) for the midrange. Its the automobile 8" CSC-X Woofer. SL praised the HDS version of this driver. Compared to the home version its got a higher qts, and more xmax. Plus flat response, and its within the budget. Drawback is the silly need for auto woofers to have a big logo on the dust cap.
As for the bass units, not too sure about this pick, but the peerless 850146 ( 257 SWR 39 115 SDX 4L AL). It the CSC-X home 10" Woofer. Its got decent xmax, and 22~23hz FS. On the negative is low qts and slightly above budget.
Well, feel free to shoot down my choices, as long as you tell me why.
Cheers,
Mats
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