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Old 20th March 2014, 09:46 AM   #1
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Default 2.5 way question about x/o slopes/phase

I have 2 pairs of satori's and now debating on doing a 2.5 way design with them;

What would be the ideal slopes for these drivers in a 2.5? For example if I were to use a 2nd order on the main driver and a 1st on the 0.5, would I then run into phase issues?
or is it possible to use a 1st on both (and a 3rd on the tweet)?
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Old 20th March 2014, 10:03 AM   #2
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I think Sreten answered a similar question last week.
It's the SUM of the thing that really counts tho isn't it?

But as far as I am aware the .5 is always a first order low pass.
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Old 20th March 2014, 11:36 AM   #3
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

There are two ways of dong it :

a) 1st order 0.5 way on one driver, x/o on the the other.
b) x/o preceding both drivers, then 0.5 way on one driver.

b) Has some advantages, but the x/o needs to handle
double the current of arrangement a) for the benefits
the arrangement may or may not bring in each case.

FWIW the FR of the Satori does look suitable for a full BSC 0.5 way,
i.e. acoustically the response should still rise and the real acoustic
BSC can be reduced somewhat if required to suit the application.

What is possible with the 2.5 way x/o and what is wise are
two very different things. The Seas DXT is worth considering
as a tweeter, but needs more than a simple crossover to
get a neutral response. Zaph has curves for it, including
off axis, al so look at the tweeter in : Zaph|Audio

rgds, sreten.
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Old 21st March 2014, 12:39 AM   #4
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I've read about the latter approach on a couple of threads - does that increase efficiency?

I'm looking to match the satori's with the Fountek X 2.0 ribbon
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Old 21st March 2014, 02:33 AM   #5
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re:"does that increase efficiency? " - no, but it allows you more cost effective use of the inductors - Low DCR inductors are needed to minimise losses
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Old 21st March 2014, 03:09 AM   #6
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Why does a 0.5 woofer need to be 1st order, I've never done it, but I've modeled second order with real measurements to be just fine. I suppose first order makes sense because of the 6db BSC but sometimes 12db/oct makes sense.
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Old 21st March 2014, 09:53 AM   #7
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that's interesting about implementing a 2nd on the 0.5. I'm just worried about phase issues, partly because I don't fully understand it. For example, if the main woofer is 2nd order and the 0.5 is a 1st, won't that 'muddy' the lower mids?

Last edited by Bill poster; 21st March 2014 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 21st March 2014, 03:01 PM   #8
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Actually you are correct that the phase drifts apart, which is why I like the idea of shutting down the 0.5 woofer faster than first order.
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Old 21st March 2014, 03:14 PM   #9
RyanC is offline RyanC  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Why does a 0.5 woofer need to be 1st order, I've never done it, but I've modeled second order with real measurements to be just fine. I suppose first order makes sense because of the 6db BSC but sometimes 12db/oct makes sense.
A first order filter is phase coherent, the shift is never that much with regard to wavelength so blending a 1st order low passed signal and one that isn't will result in very little comb filtering.

While a 2nd order filter can be flipped phase wise it isn't 180 degrees all the way down (or rather up), so if you blend the two here there will be rather substantial nulling.
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Old 21st March 2014, 04:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post

While a 2nd order filter can be flipped phase wise it isn't 180 degrees all the way down (or rather up), so if you blend the two here there will be rather substantial nulling.
I'm not quite understanding - you mean if both the main and 0.5 driver used 2nd order?
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