They use neodymium magnets and general design and build quality is good/excellent, close to Scanspeak Revelator I guess. The cones are alu or stiff wood fiber depending on model and also "deepness" varies. Obviously they are not selling well, they are not cheap but lack prestige! I have experience of just the NE95.
The pricing on the NE series seems to be largely affected by the price of neo. The NE range was set to be introduced before the neo price hike in China. The neo price hike came, many drivers went up in price by 50% and then the NE series came out at a price point that made most people scratch their heads a little.
But what's there to explain? Juhazi has already covered it pretty well, neo magnets and excellent build quality with cast frames increases the price. This in turn makes people reluctant to spend when other drivers of known quantity exist.
I've been tempted to try the NE95 too, but have held off due to the price.
But what's there to explain? Juhazi has already covered it pretty well, neo magnets and excellent build quality with cast frames increases the price. This in turn makes people reluctant to spend when other drivers of known quantity exist.
I've been tempted to try the NE95 too, but have held off due to the price.
Distortion of NE85 and "the price of Neo"
It's sort of off-topic, but many folks have been duped into this "price of Neo" argument. My company buys NeFeB magnets by the metric ton for use in servo motors. The price doubled about 4 years ago, but then settled back down to about 1-1/2 of what it was historically. But these drivers use so little of the material that it's immaterial to the over all cost, probably $0.30 for the magnet in the NE95 (so an increase of ~ a dime). Someone in the chain is just making more profit using this as an excuse. (I have no problem with profit, it's about value provided. I just get bothered by the dishonesty.)
NE85 Distortion- A clean tweeter!
More on topic, above is the distortion of an NE85W-04 (2-1/2") sample, measured nude (no baffle) at 2.83V. Extremely clean above 1200Hz, near the best I have measured. This test was done in 2011 before I knew how a baffle could affect the result. I found, usually, that speakers mounted in a solid baffle could have much lower distortion from controlling the frame. Perhaps if this test was run again in a baffle, the LF distortion would be much better, more like other Tympany units.
This little guy continued to do well when pushed hard...
8VRMS (16Watts), Not falling apart at all.
It's sort of off-topic, but many folks have been duped into this "price of Neo" argument. My company buys NeFeB magnets by the metric ton for use in servo motors. The price doubled about 4 years ago, but then settled back down to about 1-1/2 of what it was historically. But these drivers use so little of the material that it's immaterial to the over all cost, probably $0.30 for the magnet in the NE95 (so an increase of ~ a dime). Someone in the chain is just making more profit using this as an excuse. (I have no problem with profit, it's about value provided. I just get bothered by the dishonesty.)
NE85 Distortion- A clean tweeter!
More on topic, above is the distortion of an NE85W-04 (2-1/2") sample, measured nude (no baffle) at 2.83V. Extremely clean above 1200Hz, near the best I have measured. This test was done in 2011 before I knew how a baffle could affect the result. I found, usually, that speakers mounted in a solid baffle could have much lower distortion from controlling the frame. Perhaps if this test was run again in a baffle, the LF distortion would be much better, more like other Tympany units.
This little guy continued to do well when pushed hard...
8VRMS (16Watts), Not falling apart at all.
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The neo mag drivers from Peerless that I looked at had significantly worse frequency response graphs than the 8 ohm TC9 or TG9. Plus, the ceramic magnets on the TG9 and TC9 have significantly more mass than a neo magnet, and would therefore dampen any resonances in the frame (basket) of the driver better, if that's an issue.
It may be the case that neo isn't actually that expensive, but lots of drivers went up significantly in price when the neo inflation came about and, as far as I am aware, have yet to go back down. Clearly people are trying to make more profit somewhere.
Yes, your lower end distortion is screwed by there not being a baffle.
Yes, your lower end distortion is screwed by there not being a baffle.
TG9/TC9 performance
Bob,
Don't get me wrong. I love the TC9 and the TG9; have used the TC9 in several projects including the one I just published: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/252593-novel-open-baffle-construction-techniques.html. They are standout performers- very low distortion at a low price point. It's noteworthy that although the TG9's fiberglass cone looks cool, the TC9 is the winner on both sensitivity and distortion.
However, the TC9/TG9 do beam more than I would like after 10kHz; using them on a small OB helps keep the directivity more constant (by lowering the DI at lower frequencies). A little smaller driver would be better if you want to avoid the use of a separate tweeter. So I am on the hunt for a 2" or 2-1/2". The new paper Vifa/Peerless units in this size range look good, but not as open in the back, and some people are turned off by steel baskets. I am also looking at the Fountek 2" and the new SB acoustics 2.5". Hope to find some time to measure all of them in the next month or so. I am going to pass on the NE units because of the breakup between 10K and 20K- it can be eq'ed. but it messes up the directivty up there.
Anyway, here are the TG9/TC9 test results...
![Vifa-TC9FD [BRN] vs TG9FD[GRN] open baffle SPL no smoth.GIF](https://www.diyaudio.com/community/data/attachments/368/368133-c1eb68ee36642c24c27bfc7b516d196a.jpg "Vifa-TC9FD [BRN] vs TG9FD[GRN] open baffle SPL no smoth.GIF")
TC9 Brown, TG9 Green, Freq, Response @2.83V
Notice that even though the TG9 is 4 ohms it's only about 1.5dB louder (not 3dB).
But here is the real difference; exact same test conditions only minutes apart:
TG9 at 8VRMS- very good
TC9 at 8VRMS- Unbelievably good!
FYI- it was these drivers that measured markedly poorer on distortion without the baffle, so your hunch that their heavier magnet would help in this regard is not supported by the evidence. Look how much higher the TG9's distortion is without the baffle:
TG9 Nude (no baffle) at 8VRMS
In god we trust- all others bring data. Hey-
I think I'll make that my sig.
Bob,
Don't get me wrong. I love the TC9 and the TG9; have used the TC9 in several projects including the one I just published: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/252593-novel-open-baffle-construction-techniques.html. They are standout performers- very low distortion at a low price point. It's noteworthy that although the TG9's fiberglass cone looks cool, the TC9 is the winner on both sensitivity and distortion.
However, the TC9/TG9 do beam more than I would like after 10kHz; using them on a small OB helps keep the directivity more constant (by lowering the DI at lower frequencies). A little smaller driver would be better if you want to avoid the use of a separate tweeter. So I am on the hunt for a 2" or 2-1/2". The new paper Vifa/Peerless units in this size range look good, but not as open in the back, and some people are turned off by steel baskets. I am also looking at the Fountek 2" and the new SB acoustics 2.5". Hope to find some time to measure all of them in the next month or so. I am going to pass on the NE units because of the breakup between 10K and 20K- it can be eq'ed. but it messes up the directivty up there.
Anyway, here are the TG9/TC9 test results...
TC9 Brown, TG9 Green, Freq, Response @2.83V
Notice that even though the TG9 is 4 ohms it's only about 1.5dB louder (not 3dB).
But here is the real difference; exact same test conditions only minutes apart:
TG9 at 8VRMS- very good
TC9 at 8VRMS- Unbelievably good!
FYI- it was these drivers that measured markedly poorer on distortion without the baffle, so your hunch that their heavier magnet would help in this regard is not supported by the evidence. Look how much higher the TG9's distortion is without the baffle:
TG9 Nude (no baffle) at 8VRMS
In god we trust- all others bring data. Hey-
I think I'll make that my sig.
I agree with Juhazi.
As an example of prices in Europe:
Vifa NE180 base (without heatsink): 136€
Peerless HDS 830883: 88€
Other Peerless HDS 6.5": from 65 to 73€
Seas Prestige 6.5": from 70 to 88€
SS 18W8531: 188€
So the Vifa costs from 50% to 100% more than some quasi equivalent offerings from Seas and Peerless, the SS Revelator costs 50€ more but it is obviously a SS (hey, look, it's a SS!). For me it could be appealing for a 830883 price.
Ralf
As an example of prices in Europe:
Vifa NE180 base (without heatsink): 136€
Peerless HDS 830883: 88€
Other Peerless HDS 6.5": from 65 to 73€
Seas Prestige 6.5": from 70 to 88€
SS 18W8531: 188€
So the Vifa costs from 50% to 100% more than some quasi equivalent offerings from Seas and Peerless, the SS Revelator costs 50€ more but it is obviously a SS (hey, look, it's a SS!). For me it could be appealing for a 830883 price.
Ralf
I'm starting a 2-way with the NE180W-08 and will post the details in a few months.
The Tymphany published response is pretty unflattering and nearly scared me away. However, Zaph's tests show the response below 2khz is relatively smooth with just the usual upper midrange wiggle. The peaks at 4-5khz don't appear to be cone breakup and shouldn't require extra attention. The distortion performance looks to be on par with the Revelator and Excel woofers, so it would seem to be a good value in that regard.
The Tymphany published response is pretty unflattering and nearly scared me away. However, Zaph's tests show the response below 2khz is relatively smooth with just the usual upper midrange wiggle. The peaks at 4-5khz don't appear to be cone breakup and shouldn't require extra attention. The distortion performance looks to be on par with the Revelator and Excel woofers, so it would seem to be a good value in that regard.
SB Satori vs. Vifa NE mid-bass
I'm thinking of a possible new 2-way using a Transducer Labs tweeter (maybe MgO). I haven't yet decided on size; 5, 6 or 7 in. Has anyone compared (directly or otherwise) the Satori vs. the NE? Deeper bass is not a requirement so my main objective would be low distortion and a clean, detailed midrange. Crossover frequency, box size, alignment, etc. yet to be determined.
I'm thinking of a possible new 2-way using a Transducer Labs tweeter (maybe MgO). I haven't yet decided on size; 5, 6 or 7 in. Has anyone compared (directly or otherwise) the Satori vs. the NE? Deeper bass is not a requirement so my main objective would be low distortion and a clean, detailed midrange. Crossover frequency, box size, alignment, etc. yet to be determined.
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