Reverse Engineering a Crossover (Dali) - diyAudio
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Old 10th March 2014, 09:32 PM   #1
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Default Reverse Engineering a Crossover (Dali)

I'm new to DIY and have purchased some Dali Ikon drivers (5.25" midbass, 1" dome, and ribbon tweeter). I am at a loss as to where to begin with crossover design, but have been reading some great things from the wealth of information online (including the 'Intro to Designing Crossovers') in this forum.

I have found a very similar crossover to the one I'm hoping to replicate (the manufacturers design). This attached photo is for a center channel speaker with two 6.5" midbass and the same dome/ribbon combo tweeter I'll be using.

This speaker has bi-amp terminals, with the left side of the crossover going to two 6.5" woofers (large red and large black are from terminals, two small reds and two small blacks go to woofers). Mine will only use one woofer.

The right side of this crossover gets negative (thick gray) and positive (thick blue) from the other set of bi-am terminals, then goes to the dome tweeter (small blue+ and gray- wires) covering 2,900 - 20Khz... and a ribbon tweeter (small white+ and yellow- wires) covering 14Khz - 30 Khz...

My question is, can someone who is highly familiar with this sort of thing point me in the right direction as far as what order these are? Or if they are not a typical design? I'm hoping basic online crossover design can help me with this, but this particular design is difficult for me to decode (with my limited experience).

Or even better, if someone has any info about the Dali Ikon crossover design, which is exactly what I'm trying to replicate, but could not find any photos of. Specifically, order is probably my first step. How can one quickly spot a 2nd vs. 3rd order?

Click the image to open in full size.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/7mlc64z7l2osjne/e1kS2gfQP6

Thank You!
Robert Jason
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Old 10th March 2014, 11:02 PM   #2
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looks like 1st order with BSC & Zobel for the woofers(one is a .5way); 2nd order for the dome & 3rd for the ribbon, both with some attenuation
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Impedance varies with frequency, use impedance plots of your drivers and make crossover calculations using the actual impedance of the driver at the crossover frequency
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Old 10th March 2014, 11:13 PM   #3
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

Its very easy to state the order of the electrical filters,
its not so easy to state the designed acoustic slopes.

TBH your probably looking at a 4 way and there is nothing
easy about that, I'd guess with twin added 8" bass units.

rgds, sreten.

http://audio.claub.net/Simple%20Loud...ign%20ver2.pdf
FRD Consortium tools guide
Designing Crossovers with Software Only
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There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
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Old 10th March 2014, 11:17 PM   #4
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If the OP has the data sheets of the drivers he has, probably easier to start from scratch....
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Impedance varies with frequency, use impedance plots of your drivers and make crossover calculations using the actual impedance of the driver at the crossover frequency
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Old 10th March 2014, 11:59 PM   #5
Dissi is online now Dissi  Switzerland
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The tweeter crossover on the picture is quite classic, but a ribbon tweeter covering 14-30 kHz is rather unusual.

Attached the wiring diagram (coils estimated).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CrossoverRobertJason.jpg (49.9 KB, 35 views)
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Old 11th March 2014, 12:12 AM   #6
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Dissi, thanks a million for that wiring diagram. I've spent many hours trying to come up with that. Despite having studied both engineering and accounting, there is some art to translating this to a wiring diagram that escaped me. It's like being able to read words upside down.

I thought the hybrid dome/ribbon points were odd too... here's what a review of the Dali Ikon 6 mentioned:

"The Ikon 6's unique hybrid tweeter has been trickled down from DALI's more expensive Euphonia and Helicon series. The tweeter module includes a cloth-dome unit that runs from 3kHz to beyond 20kHz, as well as a ribbon that handles the range from 14kHz to beyond 30kHz."

I'm building the bookshelf version of this. However, I have heard this speaker can be bright. It will be interesting to see.

Robert Jason
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