Couple of weeks ago I was posting here to get some thoughts on a 2-way project for a beginner. After some discussions I got a PM from Bob from CSS. He was offering me to try their new kit and write a review and illustrated thread on building the kit. Well it was hard to resist that offer and after some short reading about the drivers I jumped on it 
.
The CSS suggest to use finished cabs from PE, however, I was trying to stay on a budget and bought these cabs instead. http://www.parts-express.com/knock-down-mdf-056-cu-ft-bookshelf-speaker-cabinet--300-7064 They have the same baffle width, but 2" taller and have 0.06ft^3 bigger volume. Not a big deal!
The kit was delivered to my very fast and was very well packed:
It has all needed compoents including insulating and box wall damping panels.
Putting together these PE cabs were really easy, well made PE!
Some routing for the slots and drivers:
Luckily, we got a couple of warm days here in MD
Here are the cabs with the slot installed and partly treated:
Crossover components are glued onto a small wood boards with a glue gun:
Small modifications for a better front panel mounting:
So, cabs are ready to be closed (FYI the screws for the tweeters have weird square square recess)
Here is how it looks. So pretty much you can putt everything together on one weekend:
Finally some listening....
I will write some listening experience a bit later, because drivers need some time to break in, they really gain some upper-mid body while doing it. One I can tell the speakers have really low distortions, thats for sure .
.The CSS suggest to use finished cabs from PE, however, I was trying to stay on a budget and bought these cabs instead. http://www.parts-express.com/knock-down-mdf-056-cu-ft-bookshelf-speaker-cabinet--300-7064 They have the same baffle width, but 2" taller and have 0.06ft^3 bigger volume. Not a big deal!
The kit was delivered to my very fast and was very well packed:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It has all needed compoents including insulating and box wall damping panels.
Putting together these PE cabs were really easy, well made PE!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Some routing for the slots and drivers:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Luckily, we got a couple of warm days here in MD
Here are the cabs with the slot installed and partly treated:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Crossover components are glued onto a small wood boards with a glue gun:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Small modifications for a better front panel mounting:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So, cabs are ready to be closed (FYI the screws for the tweeters have weird square square recess)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here is how it looks. So pretty much you can putt everything together on one weekend:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Finally some listening....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I will write some listening experience a bit later, because drivers need some time to break in, they really gain some upper-mid body while doing it
. One I can tell the speakers have really low distortions, thats for sure .
Ok. I was listening to the speakers all the weekend and can share my impression.
The main thing I would like to highlight — these speakers are detailed. These driver have really low distortions, so they do not hide the details. This is taking to account that my kit has cheap capacitors, so it can be better I guess. In the beginning the upper-mid was really thin, but this changed after some break in. Still getting better. The low end is pretty solid. These are the first bookshelf speakers I have, so some stuff is new for me here. The response is pretty pretty smooth down and then you just missing lower octaves. They are good for most of pop and electronic music. If you like double bass passages, you will probably need a sub.
For me the weak point is the soundstage. They give you some, but not that much as I'd like to. Sound is a bit sticks to the speakers. Side to side is ok, but depth is so so. We will se, maybe it will improve after some more break in time...
The main thing I would like to highlight — these speakers are detailed. These driver have really low distortions, so they do not hide the details. This is taking to account that my kit has cheap capacitors, so it can be better I guess. In the beginning the upper-mid was really thin, but this changed after some break in. Still getting better. The low end is pretty solid. These are the first bookshelf speakers I have, so some stuff is new for me here
. The response is pretty pretty smooth down and then you just missing lower octaves. They are good for most of pop and electronic music. If you like double bass passages, you will probably need a sub. For me the weak point is the soundstage. They give you some, but not that much as I'd like to. Sound is a bit sticks to the speakers. Side to side is ok, but depth is so so. We will se, maybe it will improve after some more break in time...
The Triton is essentially end-of-life given the inconsistencies with the LD25X tweeter. The V2 is the middle of the current 3 kits in the V series and we are contemplating an ML-TL version.
For our American customers we have lowered the US price a little to reflect the weakness of the C$.
Bob
Good to see after all your difficulties you had to get the V2 built you got them together.
With the V series these are designed with the NEW LD22C tweeter (TRITON no more LD25X tweeters the build quality for those LD25X tweeters was horrible to say the least) Moving forward with a new tweeter CSS went to a very good company to have a tweeter design with a custom faceplate made here in Canada.With all LD22 tweeters being assembled in Canada on site at CSS
With the V series the ERSE capacitors are standard capacitors with film /foil bypass caps on each capacitor in the tweeter network.These are not cheap capacitors rather a very good capacitor for a capacitor used for the basic kits.Those wanting better capacitor CSS offers Obbligato capacitors 630V as well as Mundorf EVO series as a option.
Also stock with the V series speaker kits are 16G air core inductors with Ironcore used on the woofer for the V3 woofer only.Metal Oxide resistors are supplied for the kits with options for Mills and Dueland as listed options as well for the V series speaker kit.
Wire used in the kits is Teflon silver 16g and this wire is used as a stock wire from CSS for the kits with options for a 14G teflon silver as well a DHLabs 14G.
See how these perform after a few hrs of break in..
With the V series these are designed with the NEW LD22C tweeter (TRITON no more LD25X tweeters the build quality for those LD25X tweeters was horrible to say the least) Moving forward with a new tweeter CSS went to a very good company to have a tweeter design with a custom faceplate made here in Canada.With all LD22 tweeters being assembled in Canada on site at CSS
With the V series the ERSE capacitors are standard capacitors with film /foil bypass caps on each capacitor in the tweeter network.These are not cheap capacitors rather a very good capacitor for a capacitor used for the basic kits.Those wanting better capacitor CSS offers Obbligato capacitors 630V as well as Mundorf EVO series as a option.
Also stock with the V series speaker kits are 16G air core inductors with Ironcore used on the woofer for the V3 woofer only.Metal Oxide resistors are supplied for the kits with options for Mills and Dueland as listed options as well for the V series speaker kit.
Wire used in the kits is Teflon silver 16g and this wire is used as a stock wire from CSS for the kits with options for a 14G teflon silver as well a DHLabs 14G.
See how these perform after a few hrs of break in..
Difficulties? I am not sure what are you talking about? :-( I actually put all things together pretty much for one weekend taking into account that I almost made and amp at the same time... The fact that I did not like to work with teflon wires and wanted to check the port tuning are not difficulties...So, no difficulties at all, pretty straight forward kit to work with.
Last edited:
A few comments on Bob's post in message #6. Bob said:
"The V2 is the middle of the current 3 kits in the V series and we are contemplating an ML-TL version."
Well, an exceptional MTM ML-TL cabinet design using the CSS VWR126X drivers already exists. My Triton MTM MLTL has its own thread at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/226173-triton-mtm-grows-legs-mltl-design.html
The Triton MTM MLTL has internal dimensions of 6.0" wide by 5.5" deep by 41" H and outside dimensions (assuming 0.75 inch thick material) of 7.5"W x 7.0"D x 42.5"H.
Now Al's V2 bookshelf crossover can be used 'as is' in a modified Triton MTM MLTL enclosure. For best performance (and to use the Triton MLTL internal cross-sectional area) the internal dimensions for a V2 MLTL variant would be to be 7.0"W x 4.5"D x 41"H. That would yield a V2 MLTL MTM with external dimensions of 8.5" W x 6.0"D x 42.5"H again assuming 0.75" thick material.
"The V2 is the middle of the current 3 kits in the V series and we are contemplating an ML-TL version."
Well, an exceptional MTM ML-TL cabinet design using the CSS VWR126X drivers already exists. My Triton MTM MLTL has its own thread at:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/226173-triton-mtm-grows-legs-mltl-design.html
The Triton MTM MLTL has internal dimensions of 6.0" wide by 5.5" deep by 41" H and outside dimensions (assuming 0.75 inch thick material) of 7.5"W x 7.0"D x 42.5"H.
Now Al's V2 bookshelf crossover can be used 'as is' in a modified Triton MTM MLTL enclosure. For best performance (and to use the Triton MLTL internal cross-sectional area) the internal dimensions for a V2 MLTL variant would be to be 7.0"W x 4.5"D x 41"H. That would yield a V2 MLTL MTM with external dimensions of 8.5" W x 6.0"D x 42.5"H again assuming 0.75" thick material.
Jim.
We have a few mltl coming for the vwr drivers. They are just finishing cad then they will be cut and I will get to all the measurements at that time.
How ever my mltl is different in all sizes. 7" od I remember at this time I will put some info up for it once I get home. I did do a different mltl for the V2 plus a mltl for the HT2 as well.That will use the same driver spacing as the V2 mltl. The idea for this was for best imaging to go to a 7" od on the cabinets like my old HT series.
At this time as well CNC baffles for the 2 mltl are being cut up and those baffles will also be available as a kit option or included for the 2mltl kits coming. Things still getting finished on the over all kits.
We have a few mltl coming for the vwr drivers. They are just finishing cad then they will be cut and I will get to all the measurements at that time.
How ever my mltl is different in all sizes. 7" od I remember at this time I will put some info up for it once I get home. I did do a different mltl for the V2 plus a mltl for the HT2 as well.That will use the same driver spacing as the V2 mltl. The idea for this was for best imaging to go to a 7" od on the cabinets like my old HT series.
At this time as well CNC baffles for the 2 mltl are being cut up and those baffles will also be available as a kit option or included for the 2mltl kits coming. Things still getting finished on the over all kits.
One of the symptoms of MDF boxes (and yours with the poorly oriented braces) is a low-level ooze of time-smeared energy out of the boxes which buries the the low level information you need to reproduce a good 3D soundstage. The curved PE cabs are much better, with their MDF-ply curved sides & better bracing, althou still not as good as a well-engineered box of quality plywood.
The issue attributable to your need to maintain a budget and not inherent to the drivers themselves.
Treated = full EnABL
dave
Let me make a few comments on several inputs since my last one.
First, for Bob: I did not mention the different tweeters in my Triton MTM MLTL and a proposed V2 MLTL. The Triton MTM MLTL and my proposed V2 MLTL would have the exactly the same enclosure related performance (bass region). My MLTL design is solely based upon the T/S specs of the VWR126X as the tweeters in each design have the same frame size. Thus I'm assuming the driver to driver spacings are the same. Bottom line is that the enclosure for the Triton MTM MLTL and a V2 MLTL could be identical and have exactly the same bass related performance.
Second, for PKI: The fact that the MLTL design essentially places the speaker at the perfect listening height is the beauty of the enclosure. No stands are needed and if fact the footprint of the MLTL is actually smaller than the bookshelf version. I call it a speaker with legs.
Third, comments on imaging/sound sticking to the boxes listening from Dave and PKI: After hearing my Triton MTM MLTL for more than a year I continue to be impressed by their imaging and their ability to create an out of box sound experience. They compare favorably to a set of much more expensive DSP crossed open baffle MTMs that have superb imaging in my listening room. Some of this excellent sound can be attributed to the Jeff Bagby crossover in my units. My boxes are half MDF and half solid cherry wood and I damped the insides with a layer of 0.050" thick SonicBarrier VE-1 sheet. The front and back panels have a layer of WilsonArt laminate which further aids the rigidity of the enclosures. My normal addition of 0.75 lbs/cu. ft. stuffing is used inside the enclosure from just below the drivers to the top of the box. I doubt that treating the cones would yield significant improvement in my design.
First, for Bob: I did not mention the different tweeters in my Triton MTM MLTL and a proposed V2 MLTL. The Triton MTM MLTL and my proposed V2 MLTL would have the exactly the same enclosure related performance (bass region). My MLTL design is solely based upon the T/S specs of the VWR126X as the tweeters in each design have the same frame size. Thus I'm assuming the driver to driver spacings are the same. Bottom line is that the enclosure for the Triton MTM MLTL and a V2 MLTL could be identical and have exactly the same bass related performance.
Second, for PKI: The fact that the MLTL design essentially places the speaker at the perfect listening height is the beauty of the enclosure. No stands are needed and if fact the footprint of the MLTL is actually smaller than the bookshelf version. I call it a speaker with legs.
Third, comments on imaging/sound sticking to the boxes listening from Dave and PKI: After hearing my Triton MTM MLTL for more than a year I continue to be impressed by their imaging and their ability to create an out of box sound experience. They compare favorably to a set of much more expensive DSP crossed open baffle MTMs that have superb imaging in my listening room. Some of this excellent sound can be attributed to the Jeff Bagby crossover in my units. My boxes are half MDF and half solid cherry wood and I damped the insides with a layer of 0.050" thick SonicBarrier VE-1 sheet. The front and back panels have a layer of WilsonArt laminate which further aids the rigidity of the enclosures. My normal addition of 0.75 lbs/cu. ft. stuffing is used inside the enclosure from just below the drivers to the top of the box. I doubt that treating the cones would yield significant improvement in my design.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.