This is really a question for Jeff Bagby, however anyone with experience with these speakers please feel free to chime in:
Hi Jeff,
I've been considering what to build for a couple of months. One of the most important factors in my decision is that I am restricted to a fairly near-wall placement. The most distance between the back of the speaker and the wall that I can achieve is about one foot.
After narrowing it down from your Triton, Continuum, or Kairos, I'd pretty much decided to go for the Kairos and was getting excited about finally having made my decision when I read some post that said they are best placed several feet out into the room. However I can't find anything about placement in your write up about them on Meniscus (although maybe I missed it). Would this be a less than optimal placement for them? Would the Triton or Continuum be a better choice for near-wall placement?
Just a little background - I listen to all types of music, from full orchestra, to Black Sabbath, Mel Torme to Neil Young to Nora Jones. At all volumes. Never had much luck with integrating subs, nor do I have a lot of room, but I was willing to give it a shot again with the Continuums or Tritons. I've got a couple kicking around, or could possibly build down the road.
Power and current isn't a problem, I've got a DK Design Integrated that puts out 150w into 8 ohms and will happily double that into 4. Sources are a Marc Morinified AR XA turntable, and a pc with flac and wav through JRiver into a Micromega MyDac.
I also considered Jim Holtz and Curt Cambell's Finalist, since it is configurable for both near and far-wall placement. Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. I plan to build something in the very near future.
Thanks,
Jamie
Hi Jeff,
I've been considering what to build for a couple of months. One of the most important factors in my decision is that I am restricted to a fairly near-wall placement. The most distance between the back of the speaker and the wall that I can achieve is about one foot.
After narrowing it down from your Triton, Continuum, or Kairos, I'd pretty much decided to go for the Kairos and was getting excited about finally having made my decision when I read some post that said they are best placed several feet out into the room. However I can't find anything about placement in your write up about them on Meniscus (although maybe I missed it). Would this be a less than optimal placement for them? Would the Triton or Continuum be a better choice for near-wall placement?
Just a little background - I listen to all types of music, from full orchestra, to Black Sabbath, Mel Torme to Neil Young to Nora Jones. At all volumes. Never had much luck with integrating subs, nor do I have a lot of room, but I was willing to give it a shot again with the Continuums or Tritons. I've got a couple kicking around, or could possibly build down the road.
Power and current isn't a problem, I've got a DK Design Integrated that puts out 150w into 8 ohms and will happily double that into 4. Sources are a Marc Morinified AR XA turntable, and a pc with flac and wav through JRiver into a Micromega MyDac.
I also considered Jim Holtz and Curt Cambell's Finalist, since it is configurable for both near and far-wall placement. Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. I plan to build something in the very near future.
Thanks,
Jamie
How's the listening room constructed, are the walls made of soft or hard materials?
Perhaps make a vented box with a tuneable vent or closed box with a lower q?
I've made a pair of the Kairos in a closed box, slightly larger than in the drawing.
Mine are placed well out from the walls in a fairly large room in a timber house, haven't tried the speakers close to the wall at all.
As now, the sound is well balanced and with slight boost from the floor and walls they dig amazingly deep given the size. Imaging is exceptionally good, there's a certain "snap" in the sound reminiscent of good planars or electrostatics like Apogee or Martin Logan. I love these speakers, in all, the best compromise i've heard at any reasonable price. Especially the mw16p is amazing, you can play it really loud without noticeable hard distortion or compression.
Perhaps make a vented box with a tuneable vent or closed box with a lower q?
I've made a pair of the Kairos in a closed box, slightly larger than in the drawing.
Mine are placed well out from the walls in a fairly large room in a timber house, haven't tried the speakers close to the wall at all.
As now, the sound is well balanced and with slight boost from the floor and walls they dig amazingly deep given the size. Imaging is exceptionally good, there's a certain "snap" in the sound reminiscent of good planars or electrostatics like Apogee or Martin Logan. I love these speakers, in all, the best compromise i've heard at any reasonable price. Especially the mw16p is amazing, you can play it really loud without noticeable hard distortion or compression.
Thanks idaho. Actually I already tried that, but I just signed up for the Parts Express forum yesterday, and I’m still waiting to be “approved” by a moderator so that I can actually post there. I will ask there once they let me in. Also tried to sign up for Meniscus forum, but I can’t get that to work at all.
Samppo, thank you for your excellent description of the sound of your Kairos. I have a pair of Magnepan 2.6 speakers, so I can relate to what you mean by the “snap”. Unfortuantely, my room is too small in the house we’re in now - they really do need to be well out from the wall. They also need some repair work. But its really exciting that you find the Kairos to have comparable sound!
Walls are drywall screwed to lath over concrete block. Floor is laminate over concrete slab. The room is very small, about 11’ x 11’, although it is open on one side to the dining area. Front wall to back wall is 11’. Speakers are on either side of a 46” TV, however music, not home theater will be their primary use.
It sounds like you have more knowledge of speaker design that me (none) since you changed the enclosure size. Does the larger enclosure give you deeper bass? Interestingly, the Finalists use a tuneable vent for placement flexibility - that’s an interesting idea. What are the dimensions of your Kairos? I’d love to see a picture of them. Thanks again for your thoughtful and informative reply.
Jamie
Samppo, thank you for your excellent description of the sound of your Kairos. I have a pair of Magnepan 2.6 speakers, so I can relate to what you mean by the “snap”. Unfortuantely, my room is too small in the house we’re in now - they really do need to be well out from the wall. They also need some repair work. But its really exciting that you find the Kairos to have comparable sound!
Walls are drywall screwed to lath over concrete block. Floor is laminate over concrete slab. The room is very small, about 11’ x 11’, although it is open on one side to the dining area. Front wall to back wall is 11’. Speakers are on either side of a 46” TV, however music, not home theater will be their primary use.
It sounds like you have more knowledge of speaker design that me (none) since you changed the enclosure size. Does the larger enclosure give you deeper bass? Interestingly, the Finalists use a tuneable vent for placement flexibility - that’s an interesting idea. What are the dimensions of your Kairos? I’d love to see a picture of them. Thanks again for your thoughtful and informative reply.
Jamie
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Ok, well there's lots of open space and due to the shape of the room a bit hard to predict how it will affect the sound. If you run into problems with eg. boomy low frequencies, relocating the speakers also sideways, even with a small amount could make a huge difference.
Anyhow, I added a quick simulation of the Satori in various enclosures just to show you the effect of box and vent tuning and possible room gain, which could give more or less boost, depending on listening room and speaker positioning.
Below also a picture of my Kairos, they are slightly deeper than in the drawing. I also rounded off the front baffle a little.
Anyhow, I added a quick simulation of the Satori in various enclosures just to show you the effect of box and vent tuning and possible room gain, which could give more or less boost, depending on listening room and speaker positioning.
Below also a picture of my Kairos, they are slightly deeper than in the drawing. I also rounded off the front baffle a little.
Thanks for those simulations, they are very interesting. I like the look of the 17l tuned to 30hz, especially with room gain. One thing I wondered about was possibly building them as a transmission line floor stander. I noticed that someone did that with the Continuum and got quite a bit deeper bass. However, I haven't found anyone that has attempted this with the Kairos.
Yours look beautiful. Did you use solid hardwood for the baffle and mdf for the rest? Just curious, why did you increase the depth of the speakers? I like your stands too, they look like they would be very rigid. Nice work!
Yours look beautiful. Did you use solid hardwood for the baffle and mdf for the rest? Just curious, why did you increase the depth of the speakers? I like your stands too, they look like they would be very rigid. Nice work!
Jamie, building a transmission line would require some simulations and an enclosure to test it out in practice. Good software is eg. Hornresp and MJK spreadsheets. There's a learning curve involved in using both of these. You could search around if someone's tried the Satori in such a configuration. It may involve a redesign of the crossover depending on what you end up with.
Mine are spruce on the front baffle and the rest is birch plywood. The depth adds maybe 2 liters of volume + a separate cavity for the crossover on the back.
Mine are spruce on the front baffle and the rest is birch plywood. The depth adds maybe 2 liters of volume + a separate cavity for the crossover on the back.
I got in touch with Jeff on the PE forum and he said he'd move his Kairos near the wall and give them a listen for me. He recommended building them sealed too.
Maybe somebody with expertise in design will come up with a TL version
I like that you put the crossover in a separate area, Samppo. If I build them, I'll use the stock crossover, but that would make it easy to upgrade components down the road.
Maybe somebody with expertise in design will come up with a TL version
I like that you put the crossover in a separate area, Samppo. If I build them, I'll use the stock crossover, but that would make it easy to upgrade components down the road.- Status
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