Help to beginner with 13L 2-way budget speaker

ODougbo · 2014-01-13 10:26 am

There are lots of kits that fit the bill here; I think we were all assumed PKI wanted to start from scratch and see what what he could come up with.
Take a good look at the RS180P's frequency response; it looks like it will go beyond 2.5K and close to 3K. If so, try a Vifa XT25 ring tweeter, very reasonable priced and just a nice sounding tweeter - just don't cross over too low.

[from a lot of experimenting, seems that ring tweeter sounds best with a 3.9uf series cap]

PKI · 2014-01-13 2:00 pm

Don't you think that RS180p is a bit too big for ~12L(internal) box? Won't 150p be a better choice?

Greebster · 2014-01-13 2:36 pm

Nope, it's that small. If we compare DA180p to other 6.5" drivers it's Sd is smaller, more like that of a 6" woofer so don't think of it as a 7".
The SDS 160 will work in a box that small if sealed, otherwise requires a box of ~1cf eg 28-29liters

Cost is 2.5x more for one vs the other so if cheap is of concern, well...

PKI · 2014-01-13 3:07 pm

So, I just measured the internal volume of the boxes I have. Unfortunately, infinity made a pretty thick walls. So internal volume is just around 8.5L... :-( Mini monitors or something at these volume?

I guess it is too small even for RS150P, no?

Greebster · 2014-01-13 3:17 pm

sreten said:
X-LS Classic kit

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Hi,

If you can't design x/o's discussing drivers is pointless.
The above is good value and very hard to beat for VFM.
In simple terms just build it sealed with your boxes.

If you want cheap and cheerful you'd be hard pushed
to find anything with such good x/o's near the price.

rgds, sreten.

This kit is a good combo. It's not just being unable to make a crossover but measuring what you have too. Both go hand in hand, anything less is just a guess. Designing a speaker based on a given enclosure size, especially if this small is backward to how speaker design is done. Ideally the SDS 160 would requires a tad bit larger enclosure than your goal.

SS4927 · 2014-01-13 3:23 pm

I bought some quality 6 1/2's to replace blown ones in a pair of similar size bookshelf speakers you have. The cabs are within the perimeters on PE page and well, they sounded like crap. They either had too little bass or too much that's muddled and not nice to listen to. I exhausted attempts to make them sound better before deciding to build bigger cabinets. Even tried an ashly crossover, more stuffing, less stuffing, and different lengths of port. I even tried sealing them. Even though they were designed for ported. That helped but I still wasn't happy with them.

PKI · 2014-01-13 5:01 pm

So, my question now is: Is it possible to find a smth for 8.5L box, or NO they are too small and make new boxes?

Greebster · 2014-01-13 5:09 pm

PKI said:
So, my question now is: Is it possible to find a smth for 8.5L box, or NO they are too small and make new boxes?

What is a "smth"?

If you want bass, larger. Tho small would work fine if you were to add a couple subs.

PKI · 2014-01-13 7:02 pm

I don't expect a big bass from a small speaker of course. I just checked ISD online and it gives 7.5 L optimum vented volume for rs150. I just don't get ideas what you get in reality compare to what simulations give you if you use manufacturer (not self measured) data?

Greebster · 2014-01-13 7:44 pm

PKI said:
I don't expect a big bass from a small speaker of course. I just checked ISD online and it gives 7.5 L optimum vented volume for rs150. I just don't get ideas what you get in reality compare to what simulations give you if you use manufacturer (not self measured) data?

Most manufactures do not make complete speakers, only drivers. How to use them is up to the designer, you.

When it comes to bass, where they are placed in a room makes a massive difference no manufacture can account for.

PKI · 2014-01-13 7:57 pm

I do not why, but it looks like I am asking the wrong questions or saying something wrong

. I newer made speakers, but I am pretty capable of digesting information and learning stuff . I know, that there is no single answer, but isn't it possible to say: with this driver and this box size you will newer get lower than -3-5db@xxHz?

Greebster · 2014-01-13 10:36 pm

PKI said:
I do not why, but it looks like I am asking the wrong questions or saying something wrong . I newer made speakers, but I am pretty capable of digesting information and learning stuff . I know, that there is no single answer, but isn't it possible to say: with this driver and this box size you will newer get lower than -3-5db@xxHz?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ner-13l-2-way-budget-speaker.html#post3775588

You asked

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sreten · 2014-01-13 11:28 pm

Hi,

Matching the drive to box size and hence the bass alignment
is barely scratching the surface of the real issues involved.
Optimum - 3dB points are not the thing to worry about.

Taking all issues into account you would be hard pushed
to do better on a budget than the GRR kit I recommended
in your boxes sealed and well stuffed. Its a bit cheap, a bit
not ideal but BFB, hard to come up with anything better.

You might think you can, well your welcome to try.
You might do better, but it will cost (a lot) more.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZMV5.html is worth a
look. As is also http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA5/

rgds, sreten.

_henry_ · 2014-01-13 11:46 pm

SB17 6.5" woofer from SB Acoustics should be on your short list.

sreten · 2014-01-14 12:14 am

Hi,

Spouting drivers at a "beginner" as in the OP title is pointless.

rgds, sreten.

_henry_ · 2014-01-14 12:15 am

sreten said:
Hi,

Spouting drivers at a "beginner" as in the OP title is pointless.

rgds, sreten.

Well we have to start from somewhere

, and considering the SB17 is around $60 each, i would think thats a good investment

.

sreten · 2014-01-14 12:27 am

Hi,

Discussing drivers as though that is the
main point is pointless for a "beginner".

rgds, sreten.

_henry_ · 2014-01-14 12:46 am

its clearly he wants to get the suitable mid drivers in his current box volume, i dont think that is pointless.

if he just pluck in a 6" midwoofer that needs 30L in his 12L box for whatever reasons, now that is pointless.

fatmarley · 2014-01-14 12:49 am

sreten said:
Hi,

Discussing drivers as though that is the
main point is pointless for a "beginner".

rgds, sreten.

Yes. He should at the very least, read THIS - Then maybe buy a book or two. Something like, Designing, building and Testing Your Own Speaker System, followed by, The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook would be a good start.

sreten · 2014-01-14 12:52 am

Hi,

Except the perfect driver for his box with a garbage
x/o and whatever tweeter will be a waste of money.

It is not just about box and driver matching, never is.

rgds, sreten.

A "beginner" will be very hard pushed to do anything
better than what I have suggested, for reasons that
I'm not remotely prepared to go into in any detail.
Good advice can be be taken or left.

http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
(see if nothing else, the excellent FAQs)
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=219617
http://www.zaphaudio.com
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA5/
http://audio.claub.net/Simple Loudspeaker Design ver2.pdf
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/FRDtools.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20090902124715/http://geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/DesigningXO.htm
http://www.rjbaudio.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20090902202231/http://geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/
http://speakerdesignworks.com/
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28655
http://www.deadwaxcafe.com/vzone/david/david.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download.html
http://www.quarter-wave.com/
http://www.frugal-horn.com/
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/
http://www.musicanddesign.com/

Great free SPICE Emulator : http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tina-ti.html

Help to beginner with 13L 2-way budget speaker

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