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Old 4th January 2014, 07:54 PM   #21
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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what would be a reasonable bandwidth and distortion to expect for the AS-100N on K400 type horn?

Carson AS-100N 100 Watt Siren Speaker Driver
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Old 4th January 2014, 07:57 PM   #22
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My intention is to toy around with a 3 way all horn loaded speaker on a budget. For me this means affordable off the shelf horns and compresion drivers for 500 Hz and up and a folded midbass 50 Hz> 500. I do understand this is a compromised layout. In an ideal world horns "need" to be round and tractrix, jmlc or iwata or turned on a lathe from wood, i know.

I am just looking for a cheap way to make some fun. And toy around with horns. To learn a bit more about them.

unaHm, apologies for the thread hijack!
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Old 4th January 2014, 08:09 PM   #23
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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for cheap you could try the little phenolic PRV
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Old 4th January 2014, 08:10 PM   #24
unaHm is online now unaHm  United States
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POOH, I'd love to see what your setup looks like! What is the 6.5" driver that you're using for your midrange, and how long does the horn have to be in order for it to be effective?

I've not yet found much information on the driver chamber on the cone-driven horns. I do understand that the intent to enclose the driver is not necessarily for tuning purposes, but what factors determine its size?

It seems that the desired compression drivers for this application are in that $400 range (depending on the driver, for one, or for a pair). I wish I could afford that...maybe one day!

Has anyone on the forums used the 'cheap' compression drivers that have been mentioned in this thread?

In terms of distortion in compression drivers, how much does it relate to cone drivers? Is it mathematically quite high, but in comparison hardly noticeable, or because of the sensitivity is it worse?
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Old 4th January 2014, 08:26 PM   #25
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unaHm,

The Selenium D250X is used as a cheaper replacement for the Atlas Sound PD-5VH in the Klipsch la Scala 400 - 4.500 Hz. I don't know how wel it plays in that horn. Or for that matter how well the original PD5VH plays in La Scala.
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Old 4th January 2014, 09:05 PM   #26
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The mid horn is around 30 inches long, the back chambers are best tuned with a resistor, volt meter and signal generator - start big and add mass inside the chamber to the flare frequency - 10 percent. read Edgar's article on reactance annulling, I go 10 percent lower then he does - http://volvotreter.de/downloads/Edgar-Monolith-Horn.pdf

A good cone like the B&C will have lower IM distortion then a compression driver. It is critical to align the voice coil with the bass and treble drivers. acone normally will have better tone and when aligned properly will have a bit more realism for strings and brass.

"It's about having the loudspeaker experience the same magnitude of "air loading" on each side of the cone at the lowest frequency the horn is expected to operate at (the cutoff, fc). The rear chamber is sized such that the voice coil, when operating at fc, has the same magnitude of excursion distance regardless of the direction its moving (either towards the throat or away). The sealed air chamber behind the cone provides a fixed volume of air and, in conjuction with the suspension and spider, provides the necessary loading. The effect is to raise the output of the horn as the frequency of the signal is lowered to fc.

The system stiffness (rear chamber air volume + driver) is equal to the acoustic resistance (in mechanical Ohms) of the horn throat multiplied by a constant. The constant is 2*Pi*f where f is frequency in Hz. If the rear chamber is sized accordingly, the system stiffness, at fc where fc is now the horn cut-off frequency, is equal in magnitude to the acoustical resistance of the throat multiplied by 2*Pi*fc. Assuming a sinewave input of frequency equal to fc, the voice coil oscillating forward and aft will have similar excursion magnitudes going either towards the throat or toward the rear chamber thus preserving (to a large degree) the input waveform."

Last edited by POOH; 4th January 2014 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 4th January 2014, 09:40 PM   #27
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POOH,

Does the 6 inch B&C need phaseplug in that frontloaded horn?
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Old 4th January 2014, 11:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoholic Anonymus View Post
POOH,

Does the 6 inch B&C need phaseplug in that frontloaded horn?
Not really this is at 5 feet in room no back chamber, factory phase plug, no eq or crossover driven by PP 6BQ5. The back chamber brings the bottom up a bit but it sounds better without one 1/48 th smoothing - sounds very real
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File Type: jpg BC6PVno chamber.jpg (92.0 KB, 386 views)
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Old 5th January 2014, 12:00 AM   #29
unaHm is online now unaHm  United States
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Thanks for the information POOH, that does make a lot of sense!

Phenoholic Anonymous, I wish I'd found that Selenium driver before! Going from this spec sheet:

http://www.selenium.com.br/sitenovo/.../HL50-25_i.pdf

The D250-X would be a GOOD candidate for a midrange application...especially as Selenium use it themselves from 250Hz in this horn. It would crossover well with the T18. Thanks for digging that one up!
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Old 5th January 2014, 01:47 AM   #30
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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Check out the Community M200 or M200a, or find some Selenium D405s. For a cone maybe Audax PR170M0s,they have serious tone.
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