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Old 30th December 2013, 05:52 AM   #11
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I think the B&C driver is good not only the sound but also the price. Most of my cabinet are used the B&C driver. it is very durable too.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 03:37 AM   #12
unaHm is offline unaHm  United States
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Thanks for the responses...I've been researching them, and bookmarking them for the time I can afford those :-)

I received a parts express catalogue today, and noticed this:

Dayton Audio D1075T 75W Driver with 70V Transformer | 300-190

Upon first thought it didn't seem that it would be feasible given that the stated nominal input was specified as 70.7v. However, the transformer itself can be bypassed, so given that it has a frequency range of 180-6000Hz and a SPL of 110db, it certainly seems to be a contender!
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Old 3rd January 2014, 08:20 AM   #13
Lojzek is offline Lojzek  Croatia
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you are right about the frequency range from 180 to 6k,
but 180 at -20dB ( nevermind the distortion which is probably
skyhigh ) and 6k at -30dB. 500 to 2k is more realistic.
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Old 4th January 2014, 04:24 AM   #14
unaHm is offline unaHm  United States
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Ok - which again takes this driver out of the running, as we lose the range that we need.

Thinking about mid(bass) horns that use cone drivers, why are the speakers used in all of the designs (that I've found) 15"? It seems quite large for that application!

However, from some more reading I've caught a tiny bit of information that suggests that the driver size is needed to be used in conjunction with a small(ish) throat to provide proper loading. Am I along the right lines?
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Old 4th January 2014, 05:28 AM   #15
GM is offline GM  United States
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It's to keep the horn short, yet still high efficiency with a smooth enough response. ?? Throats tend to be = Sd [1:1 CR] or larger, requiring multiple woofers.

Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
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Old 4th January 2014, 01:35 PM   #16
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Hi unaHm,

I too am thinking about an all horn loudspeaker around a cheap phenolic midrange driver. Since these type of drivers seem to be the only way to close the +- 500 - 5.000 Hz range on a budget.

50 - 500 Hz 8 or 10 inch, in a folded frontloaded horn Klipsch / Vitavox Thunderbolt style.
500 - 4.500 Hz Selenium D250X on a big biridial ABS horn 18" w x 10" h x 12 " deep.
4.500 Hz -> "Denovo DNA 150" type neodymium driver on a small biradial horn. Eminence EM 200 ish.

About the 50- 500 Hz midrange horn. Maybe someone with more experience can help us out?

If you use a 12 or 10 inch driver instead of a 8 inch driver and shorten the horn. Let's say from 1.7 meter (8 inch driver) to 1.5 meter. Compression ratio, mass roll off all beeing the same does this improve the upper midrange part? Would this sound better in real life? Whereby i mean, does someone have experience with this shortening besides simulating it in hornresponse.

I understand folding a bass midrange horn is "not done". Would the midrange performance in a folded horn increase a lot with a stronger magnet? Let's say mass roll of 700 Hz instead of 400 Hz.

Would it help to split up the bass midrange horn in 2 or 4 path's. Multicel horn way?

Anymore suggestion's for improving midrange performance in a folded midbas "Klipsch / Thunderbolt type" horn. Besides smooth transitions, big roundovers, felt or foam around the mouth?

Regards Anonymus,

Last edited by Phenoholic Anonymus; 4th January 2014 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 4th January 2014, 04:13 PM   #17
POOH is offline POOH  United States
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After many trials I find the simplest and good way to split up a hornloudspeaker operating range is in decades or close to decades. A cone driven horn up to 250-300. Then cone, compression drivers are OK but forget about a cheap girly one other than some big Atlas or ideally 4" phenolic (the little Selenium 250 barely gets to 600 cycles) a 5, 6 or 8" in straight horn 250-300 up to 1800-3000. I have one where a 2" throat is used with a 6.5" that does 250 to 2,5K very well, stomps JBL 2482 & Altec 290 - The BC 6PEV13 in 180 flare round wooden tractrix. Then use your favorite 1" compression driver for treble. You can go further but these frequency ranges are fairly easy to get right.
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Old 4th January 2014, 06:44 PM   #18
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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same that's an impressive graph for the little (18"x18"x19") T18 posted at BFM's site - better in ways than my Klipschorns. A 6" or 8" cone on a 150Hz tractrix might blend ok. University's Cobraflex although small mouth, had a long path. I would use a small Karlson topped with K-tube (or loaded with fullrange or coax).

my lone 1970's Klipschorn in an 18x27 foot room K33 CTS - orange trace with 2.5mH inductor - aqua = no inductor
Click the image to open in full size.

EV 1823M ~30uF highpass - three different horns outdoors and on-axis
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Adrian Mack conical horn with Alpha6A and Edgar 250Hz tractrix with JBL alnico LE5 - outdoors and on-axis
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same horns on and 30 degrees off horizontal axis outdoors
Click the image to open in full size.

Dr. Bruce Edgar's 100Hz hypex horn outdoors and on-axis JBL2220 vs Klipsch K43. (the distortion is for the K43 - 2220 ran probably 10dB higher IIRC)
This horn has a 20"x20" mouth and about a 20" path from mouth to an 80 sq. inch throat. Total depth with back chamber was around 28 inches.
Click the image to open in full size.

10 inch driver Karlson coupler
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Last edited by freddi; 4th January 2014 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 4th January 2014, 07:02 PM   #19
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Thanks POOH,

I will look into a bigger phenolic driver for 500 Hz and up. By the big Atlas you mean the Atlas AS100N? AtlasSound.com

I found some bigger phenolic drivers, but everytime the voice coil / power handling gets bigger the mass roll off seems to limit the extention quite a bit. Like this Sammi SU 150 EF.
I believe most of the phenolic drivers originate from Voicetek China or Ahuja India.

Probably need a big, big neodymium magnet to get more extension above 2.000 Hz out of a 66 mm or larger voicecoil phenolic driver.

Anybody some input about folding a midbass and the influence of mass roll off on soundquality?
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Old 4th January 2014, 07:30 PM   #20
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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Just find a set of Community M4s
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