I don't mean to belabor this, but I do sometimes see things here that concern me regarding the use of real wood.
In my area the target for wood moisture content is 7.5% if the wood is to be used in a typical home. In the desert southwest, 4.0% is considered desirable. Just so you know how important this is, an organ builder, a little north of here, added extra dehumidifiers to his already humidity-controlled shop so he could be confident of delivering and instrument to that area that would last under those conditions. He saws and kiln dries his own lumber so obtaining wood at 4.0% was not the problem. The problem was just keeping it there during manufacture.
In general you cannot trust your supplier to provide wood that is within an acceptable range. My experience with places like Lowes has been that less than 20% of their stock, advertised as kiln dried, is even close to 7.5%. Much is 12% (equilibrium moisture content, EMC, for this area) and not infrequently I find > 20%. I always take my moisture meter when purchasing wood and go over most of the stacks. I do this at Lowes, I think, just to be appalled. In this area you can be fairly confident that soft woods dried to EMC, at the least, will develop serious cracks during their first winter of indoor use.
BTW If you have access to a reasonably accurate scale and an oven you can determine the moisture content without a meter. But, uh, it's a bit awkward to do before you buy.
eStatic.
In my area the target for wood moisture content is 7.5% if the wood is to be used in a typical home. In the desert southwest, 4.0% is considered desirable. Just so you know how important this is, an organ builder, a little north of here, added extra dehumidifiers to his already humidity-controlled shop so he could be confident of delivering and instrument to that area that would last under those conditions. He saws and kiln dries his own lumber so obtaining wood at 4.0% was not the problem. The problem was just keeping it there during manufacture.
In general you cannot trust your supplier to provide wood that is within an acceptable range. My experience with places like Lowes has been that less than 20% of their stock, advertised as kiln dried, is even close to 7.5%. Much is 12% (equilibrium moisture content, EMC, for this area) and not infrequently I find > 20%. I always take my moisture meter when purchasing wood and go over most of the stacks. I do this at Lowes, I think, just to be appalled. In this area you can be fairly confident that soft woods dried to EMC, at the least, will develop serious cracks during their first winter of indoor use.
BTW If you have access to a reasonably accurate scale and an oven you can determine the moisture content without a meter. But, uh, it's a bit awkward to do before you buy.
eStatic.
I have been woodworking for many years and have never purchased a single splinter of wood without knowing it's moisture content. For serious woodworkers, a moisture meter is a must. I purchase all my stock in the rough and once I know it's moisture content I seal the ends with woodworkers wax to prevent splitting if the moisture content drops too low. I also do not purchase hardwoods from Lowes for Home Depot because they simply do not have the quality of stock that a hardwood supplier can offer and I prefer to surface my own stock because I do not trust S4S to be flat parallel and square. These are some of the caveats woodworkers have to live by. Wood is porus and that is a fact of life we must live with.
My web site: www.woodworkersweb.com
My web site: www.woodworkersweb.com
The ball park range in cost is $60.00 to $300. There are two different types. Probe and R.F. I prefer the R.F. because my suppliers are often a bit reluctant to let me at the more expensive woods with a probe type. Neither is perfect and both have advantages and disadvantages. I check the calibration of mine with a scale every few years.
I'll look for some pictures. Their appearance can vary considerably from brand to brand.
eStatic
I'll look for some pictures. Their appearance can vary considerably from brand to brand.
eStatic
hacknet said:
The problem of high humidity is in wood selection. Teak is favored under those conditions for longevity. I doubt that's a real concern for speakers. Other than rot in high humidity it is the variation of humidity, not its absolute value that is the problem for real wood. So, I doubt you have any more problem then those of use in the southeast US, possibly less.
eStatic
Rodd,
I have the Delmhorst J2000 which is the digital version of the meter pictured. It reads from 6% to 30% using the probes mounted on the top left hand side of the unit. You can insert the probes up to 5/16ths deep and the unit can test stock to 6/4 (1.5") in thickness. They also make an external probe that connects to the connector on the upper right hand side that will help you probe very hard woods (never had to use it yet). They are available for a couple hundred bucks and are worth their weight in gold to any woodworker.
I have the Delmhorst J2000 which is the digital version of the meter pictured. It reads from 6% to 30% using the probes mounted on the top left hand side of the unit. You can insert the probes up to 5/16ths deep and the unit can test stock to 6/4 (1.5") in thickness. They also make an external probe that connects to the connector on the upper right hand side that will help you probe very hard woods (never had to use it yet). They are available for a couple hundred bucks and are worth their weight in gold to any woodworker.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Tim,
Absolutely! The reason for this is shrinkage. Wood expands and contracts with moisture content which can be drawn from the humidity in it's environment. You want to work with the material after it has acclimated to the humidity of the environment to which it has been introduced. On my woodworking website I have a shrinkage calculator called the Shrinkulator at http://www.woodworkersweb.com/woodcalc.htm which will calculate shrinkage or expansion for a specific change in moisture content.
PS for a Shameless Plug: Pictures of my woodshop can be found by clicking on "Michele and Guy's Woodshop" in the main menu.
Absolutely! The reason for this is shrinkage. Wood expands and contracts with moisture content which can be drawn from the humidity in it's environment. You want to work with the material after it has acclimated to the humidity of the environment to which it has been introduced. On my woodworking website I have a shrinkage calculator called the Shrinkulator at http://www.woodworkersweb.com/woodcalc.htm which will calculate shrinkage or expansion for a specific change in moisture content.
PS for a Shameless Plug: Pictures of my woodshop can be found by clicking on "Michele and Guy's Woodshop" in the main menu.
eStatic said:
Wrong! just saw one for $1300.00
A picture of the one I use. Depth is limited to .75 inches, one side so you can scan up to 1.5 inches. But that's it. Killowattski doesn't mention it but the probe type can easily be fitted with long probes (a no brainer DIY project as I understand) to read to any depth, 'Course you gotta put holes (very tiny holes) in the wood. The ideal solution would be to win the lottery and get both types.
BTW this is advertised as an EMF not RF type. D'oh! Wrong again, there is no RF type.
eStatic
Attachments
You can easily enough find lumber dried to whatever the local climate is at cabient shops. I know we have purpleheart, spanish cedar, among a few others that have been sitting for years for the most part. Likewise most cabient shops will have exotic stock picked up through the years that will have been sitting for years.
Moses,
I live on Long Island where we have no Hardwood Dealers. We only have lumber yards. I refuse to purchase wood from Lowes or Home Depot. It is a 2 to 3 hour drive to Upstate New York to get decent Hard Wood. I am lucky enough to have a good lumber yard nearby where I have a good source of Cherry, Mahogany, Walnut, Oak or most any domestic hardwood. Their wood is not the driest which is why I always test it. I also pay through the nose because even though I can surface my own wood I am forced to buy S4S. Occasionally I do make a wood run upstate to buy a couple of hundred board foot of something but I do not have an abundance of room for storage. If someone is looking to start a business, you could make a fortune selling good unsurfaced hard wood here on Long Island. There really is no competition.
I live on Long Island where we have no Hardwood Dealers. We only have lumber yards. I refuse to purchase wood from Lowes or Home Depot. It is a 2 to 3 hour drive to Upstate New York to get decent Hard Wood. I am lucky enough to have a good lumber yard nearby where I have a good source of Cherry, Mahogany, Walnut, Oak or most any domestic hardwood. Their wood is not the driest which is why I always test it. I also pay through the nose because even though I can surface my own wood I am forced to buy S4S. Occasionally I do make a wood run upstate to buy a couple of hundred board foot of something but I do not have an abundance of room for storage. If someone is looking to start a business, you could make a fortune selling good unsurfaced hard wood here on Long Island. There really is no competition.
eStatic,
Wagner happens to make some of the most expensive Moisture Meters available. I bought mine for a couple of hundred bucks at Woodcraft. I have the probe attachment but have not tried it yet. Yes, I also have heard that it is a no brainer to DIY your own probe, but I have not tried because I have had no reason to do so.
Wagner happens to make some of the most expensive Moisture Meters available. I bought mine for a couple of hundred bucks at Woodcraft. I have the probe attachment but have not tried it yet. Yes, I also have heard that it is a no brainer to DIY your own probe, but I have not tried because I have had no reason to do so.
Perhaps then it's more of a locality issue. I'm afraid I'm only familiar with the midwest, but I do know that pretty much any cabient shop in the whole midwest will sell you hardwood. You really don't look to have much for storage though, as I look through your shop pictures, or any storage at all in your pictures. While we don't have Home Depots or Lowes here, we do have a similiar solution, Menards, to which I wouldn't by anything from either, low quality products matched by shitty hardwoods. On a side note, you have quite the nice little home shop, quite loaded too I must say. Kinda of cramped tho, makes me wonder how well one of those Laugna all in one tools works, especially for small shops.
kilowattski said:
I'm I'm sorry, I seem to have a knack for expressing things badly. I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know these things. I was pointing it out because I didn't want to leave the impression that the Wagner could read more deeply than the Delmhorst. Our two posts together would have left that impression had I not brought that up. And that feature might have been important to someone reading these posts.
BTW I have not been able to log onto your site, but from what I've read of your statements I have real respect for you.
eStatic
I did not take it that way at all. As a matter of fact I was jealous because I thought you purchased a Wagner. They are one of the best. Click on this link: www.woodworkersweb.com . It is up and running. BTW thank you for the compliment. It is refreshing to discuss this subject with someone who understands the importance of understanding how moisture content can affect hardwoods. Just a little about my background: I worked for my pop who was a cabinet maker while in college for electrical engineering. I have had my own woodshop for almost 20 years now but it is only a hobby for me. I mostly build furniture for my wife who is an interior designer and furniture designer. She would like me to spend more time with her in the shop but I enjoy DIY audio. I am looking forward to building some speakers but dislike working with MDF because of the formaldehyde laced dust involved. I always wear a dustmast and have the dust collection and air clleaners going full blast when working with it. I look forward to continuing our discussion.
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