Dear all,
I'm stuck. I've been reading a lot of the current and past threads on this forum...and it just makes my understanding greater, but ability to choose what to proceed with even more difficult!
Here's a bit about my thought process:
* I like the idea of using horns, as the subs I've made from Bill Fitzmaurice's designs have always been my favourites!
* I like the idea of using corners in a room.
* My budget is very low, and would love to use what I currently have.
From reading, I'd like to use a 2.1 system for my home studio. My main thought has been to use either a unity or synergy horn design, but I'm finding difficulty in understanding what I'm designing with what I have.
On the other hand, my thought has been to assemble a mid/top unit with two horns...one for the mid/bass, and one for the tweeter combined into a single enclosure, separate to the sub. I could also use two subs, and make an effective stereo pair.
Most of my previous work has been to follow other peoples' designs, but it's looking more and more that I'll have to create something of my own. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and there is something along the lines of what I'm thinking of!
With the above in mind, where should I begin? I have:
* Aurasound 3 inch NS3-194-16a speakers that I could use as mid/bass (http://www.madisound.com/store/manuals/ns3-194-16a.pdf)
* The 1/2 inch (Panasonic?) 1-2TW-SD84 tweeters (1/2" Mylar Dome Shielded Tweeter 8 Ohm with 3.3 Ohm Resistor | 279-001)
* MCM 55-2421 Bass speakers (MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select)
I was thinking that if i could tune the horns correctly, I could tune the horns correctly so that electrical crossovers weren't as necessary.
Also, during my searches I've found a number of discussions on waveguides and horn lenses. Rather than trying to make my own, would any of these be suitable for what I have?
I apologise for seemingly asking the same question multiple times, but I think with each iteration and the advice that's been given, I'm honing down the direction I want to go in.
Thanks very much everyone for your time!
Kind Regards,
Dan
I'm stuck. I've been reading a lot of the current and past threads on this forum...and it just makes my understanding greater, but ability to choose what to proceed with even more difficult!
Here's a bit about my thought process:
* I like the idea of using horns, as the subs I've made from Bill Fitzmaurice's designs have always been my favourites!
* I like the idea of using corners in a room.
* My budget is very low, and would love to use what I currently have.
From reading, I'd like to use a 2.1 system for my home studio. My main thought has been to use either a unity or synergy horn design, but I'm finding difficulty in understanding what I'm designing with what I have.
On the other hand, my thought has been to assemble a mid/top unit with two horns...one for the mid/bass, and one for the tweeter combined into a single enclosure, separate to the sub. I could also use two subs, and make an effective stereo pair.
Most of my previous work has been to follow other peoples' designs, but it's looking more and more that I'll have to create something of my own. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and there is something along the lines of what I'm thinking of!
With the above in mind, where should I begin? I have:
* Aurasound 3 inch NS3-194-16a speakers that I could use as mid/bass (http://www.madisound.com/store/manuals/ns3-194-16a.pdf)
* The 1/2 inch (Panasonic?) 1-2TW-SD84 tweeters (1/2" Mylar Dome Shielded Tweeter 8 Ohm with 3.3 Ohm Resistor | 279-001)
* MCM 55-2421 Bass speakers (MCM Audio Select 8'' High Excursion Woofer - 120W RMS 4ohm | 55-2421 (552421) | MCM Audio Select)
I was thinking that if i could tune the horns correctly, I could tune the horns correctly so that electrical crossovers weren't as necessary.
Also, during my searches I've found a number of discussions on waveguides and horn lenses. Rather than trying to make my own, would any of these be suitable for what I have?
I apologise for seemingly asking the same question multiple times, but I think with each iteration and the advice that's been given, I'm honing down the direction I want to go in.
Thanks very much everyone for your time!
Kind Regards,
Dan
Thanks for your response Lojzek!
I'm not sure about loudness, as the room I'm going to be using them in isn't going to be huge - an average bedroom size (at a guess, 10 feet x 14 feet). My main reasoning behind thinking of horns is the amount of detail...being able to hear those small sounds in recordings so that it inspires me to do the same in my own music
I hope that answers your question!
I'm not sure about loudness, as the room I'm going to be using them in isn't going to be huge - an average bedroom size (at a guess, 10 feet x 14 feet). My main reasoning behind thinking of horns is the amount of detail...being able to hear those small sounds in recordings so that it inspires me to do the same in my own music
I hope that answers your question!
Now I am more convinced in what I already suspected
to be the case. You are just another normal user looking
for good sonics without going broke on the way.
Nothing wrong with that.
Hearing small sounds and fine nuances recorded has
nothing to do with horns, rather with driver technology
implemented and good engineering skills to set it up
electrically either acitively or passively.
This can't be done without measuring.
Another thing, your bass driver according to specs
has got Qt= 0,22 which without EQ-ing brings you to
50 - 60 Hz (-3dB) region . Not bad just saying so you
know. No super deep bass.
I'm afraid Panasonic tweeter you have in mind will
not do the job ( small sounds) . You better look for
any fine 1 inch tweeter. There is lots of them worth
investing in.
to be the case. You are just another normal user looking
for good sonics without going broke on the way.
Nothing wrong with that.
Hearing small sounds and fine nuances recorded has
nothing to do with horns, rather with driver technology
implemented and good engineering skills to set it up
electrically either acitively or passively.
This can't be done without measuring.
Another thing, your bass driver according to specs
has got Qt= 0,22 which without EQ-ing brings you to
50 - 60 Hz (-3dB) region . Not bad just saying so you
know. No super deep bass.
I'm afraid Panasonic tweeter you have in mind will
not do the job ( small sounds) . You better look for
any fine 1 inch tweeter. There is lots of them worth
investing in.
Lojzek: You're correct...just another one of those normal users!
Ignore the subwoofer for now. I have the plans for the Bill Fitzmaurice T-18, which while it has a 50-60Hz peak like you've said, the folded horn enclosure keeps the sensitivity quite high:
My goal, therefore, is to have something I can crossover with that. It sounds like I would need a good mid/bass driver (though you didn't comment on the Aurasounds), and then probably a compression driver for the tweeter. I did purchase a couple of the panasonics, but considering their low price I can always find some way of using them elsewhere.
Andersonix: I do, but she's very forgiving because she knows that it'll allow me to make music, and be happy Huge enclosures aren't practical in both our opinions, but she's pretty lenient!
Ignore the subwoofer for now. I have the plans for the Bill Fitzmaurice T-18, which while it has a 50-60Hz peak like you've said, the folded horn enclosure keeps the sensitivity quite high:
My goal, therefore, is to have something I can crossover with that. It sounds like I would need a good mid/bass driver (though you didn't comment on the Aurasounds), and then probably a compression driver for the tweeter. I did purchase a couple of the panasonics, but considering their low price I can always find some way of using them elsewhere.
Andersonix: I do, but she's very forgiving because she knows that it'll allow me to make music, and be happy
Huge enclosures aren't practical in both our opinions, but she's pretty lenient!
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Horns are a good thing but they often need more care in setting up. I think they can sound better than a dome for example but I don't want to argue on that point.
A tweeter horn should be a simpler type, such as a waveguide. If it must be a small one I'd not try to cross it too low. You'll want to shape and flatten the response as a horn may not sound right if you don't.. whereas a dome tweeter doesn't always need the same level of set up.
If you're going to use a cone midrange, the size of this will make it more suitable for a given crossover point to a horn with your three inch drivers probably good for somewhere above a few kHz.
A tweeter horn should be a simpler type, such as a waveguide. If it must be a small one I'd not try to cross it too low. You'll want to shape and flatten the response as a horn may not sound right if you don't.. whereas a dome tweeter doesn't always need the same level of set up.
If you're going to use a cone midrange, the size of this will make it more suitable for a given crossover point to a horn with your three inch drivers probably good for somewhere above a few kHz.
Auras specs look suspicious. Week motor, low net weight,
no sign of high Qt in FR.
Need a midrange louder than that. 16 ohms version is not
helping in that respect.
True. It seems that they were designed specifically for line array applications, but I can't say I was overly impressed with them. Ah well, I can use them for other things (such as the Cornu spiral speakers that Cal Weldon has put designs together for, and also have a high WAF!), and I can look into other options.
So, moving on, I started looking on MCM's website, particularly at:
1 3/8 X 18 Thread 40W Rms Midrange Driver Threaded | 54-050 (54050) | Distributed By MCM
ABS Midrange / Tweeter Horn Lens - Threaded - 7" x 14" | NTX-1407 (NTX1407) | Distributed By MCM
Pyle 200W Compression High Frequency Driver | PDS341 | Pyle
These were just cursory glances, so the main thing I was looking at was the frequency bandwidth, and something for it to screw in!
So, moving on, I started looking on MCM's website, particularly at:
1 3/8 X 18 Thread 40W Rms Midrange Driver Threaded | 54-050 (54050) | Distributed By MCM
ABS Midrange / Tweeter Horn Lens - Threaded - 7" x 14" | NTX-1407 (NTX1407) | Distributed By MCM
Pyle 200W Compression High Frequency Driver | PDS341 | Pyle
These were just cursory glances, so the main thing I was looking at was the frequency bandwidth, and something for it to screw in!
Over the last couple of days I've been reading and reading...and reading! I've started following a couple of directions, but then end up confusing myself, because of information overload!
A couple of time discussions have cropped up regarding the JBL 2360 horn, which seems like a good method for the kind of system I'm thinking of. They will have to be put on the back-burner though, as I simply can't afford the horns and drivers (2446...?).
I always return to the volvotreter website as well, and I really like the designs of the circular horns (tractrix I think, off the top of my head), but sadly I don't own or have access to a lathe at the moment. The designs are beautiful though, and I'd love to replicate them!
Another option I've found is to make horns (particularly those using the Le Cleac'h model/algorithms) in a circular fashion by way of joining 'petals' together:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/154447-how-build-large-round-front-horns-7.html
This looks like a great idea too - particularly further along the process where a mold could be made for fiberglass/papier mache/gorilla glue and hemp twine (a la Patrick Bateman) cones to be built upon. The information I couldn't really find here was a definitive view on what type of driver to use...some use normal cone speakers (and the sizes of driver could range from 1 to 15 inches), others use compression drivers.
Maybe I need to start from scratch, and really try to understand the nature of the compression driver. I've never really had any direct contact with them, and a lot of links on the internet point to PA systems. But, people use them for audio in other applications (home theatre, studio), and like them!
I simply don't have the money to experiment, so I'd love to be able to come as close to being 'right first time' as I can. That also compounds my thanks to any advice that's given on this thread, as this all appears to be new territory for me, and sadly very theoretical at the moment!
A couple of time discussions have cropped up regarding the JBL 2360 horn, which seems like a good method for the kind of system I'm thinking of. They will have to be put on the back-burner though, as I simply can't afford the horns and drivers (2446...?).
I always return to the volvotreter website as well, and I really like the designs of the circular horns (tractrix I think, off the top of my head), but sadly I don't own or have access to a lathe at the moment. The designs are beautiful though, and I'd love to replicate them!
Another option I've found is to make horns (particularly those using the Le Cleac'h model/algorithms) in a circular fashion by way of joining 'petals' together:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/154447-how-build-large-round-front-horns-7.html
This looks like a great idea too - particularly further along the process where a mold could be made for fiberglass/papier mache/gorilla glue and hemp twine (a la Patrick Bateman) cones to be built upon. The information I couldn't really find here was a definitive view on what type of driver to use...some use normal cone speakers (and the sizes of driver could range from 1 to 15 inches), others use compression drivers.
Maybe I need to start from scratch, and really try to understand the nature of the compression driver. I've never really had any direct contact with them, and a lot of links on the internet point to PA systems. But, people use them for audio in other applications (home theatre, studio), and like them!
I simply don't have the money to experiment, so I'd love to be able to come as close to being 'right first time' as I can. That also compounds my thanks to any advice that's given on this thread, as this all appears to be new territory for me, and sadly very theoretical at the moment!
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