Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Help with line source array subs!?!?!
Help with line source array subs!?!?!
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd December 2003, 09:49 AM   #1
Turboegt is offline Turboegt  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL
Send a message via AIM to Turboegt
Default Help with line source array subs!?!?!

OK, I know this is going to sound a bit over the top but here it goes. I am looking into biulding a pair of line source arrays using the well used MTM metel cone drives and such (will save the details of that for another post) I was thinking of a pair of subs that would be able to keep up SPL and sound quality wise with the arrays. Here is what I was thinking:

Two matching towers each using 4 of these subs per tower. To drive each tower I was looking to use one ofthese for each tower . After modeling I was looking at about a 12 cubic foot tower slot vented on the back bottom of each tower. I guess my queations is what do you think about this. I am not sure if WinISD takes into account for room responce and the like. How do you think it would sound. I have a DefTech PF 1500 now and I really love is big powerful sound. Its still can do music very well but really shines on movies but I am just wanting something different.

My goal here to get as much good quality sounds as I can and still be able to get high SPL levels out of them. I listen to just about every type of music out there depending on mood. I love to relax with some good jazz or clasical but on the other hand I sometimes have small parties with people taking turns DJing on the computer and slamming out some dance and techno for other to enjoy.

I know this might seem like a far out idea but from what I have read about line arrays and modeling these using WinISD things are looking good. I know each one will be quit big, 12 cubes or so. Total cost for all the drivers and amps will be less then $550. Wood is cheap and time is......well thats the hard part. I Love quility audio and have done a few DIY home audio speakers in the past. Then I get into car audio big time and did not have the time for DIY home stuff anymore. Well I think the time is right for another DIY home setup again. I GOT THAT ITCH AGAIN!

THanks in advance for any advice on this crazzzzy idea!!

RICK
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2003, 05:19 PM   #2
mrfeedback is offline mrfeedback  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Genesis Technology make/make a speaker system with seperate bass enclosures and mid/high panels.
The system comprises a dedicated amplifier box with inbuilt <120 Hz filter and 12 channels each about 350w rms - ie 4000W total from 16 Hz through 120 Hz, and two enclosures 7+ feet high each fitted with 6 x 12" carbon fibre cone woofers.
There are 12 x 4 wire speakon cables connecting to the amplifier.
You supply your own mid/high amplifiers.

These 12 woofers are servo driven (4 wire connection) and together provide the biggest strongest cleanest bass that you have ever imagined, let alone heard.

This is an extreme example of course (USD$135,000 !!!), but illistrates that there is very much to be gained by running 6 bass drivers per bass cabinet.
12 x 10" or 8" drivers in tall narrow/deep cabinets tuned correctly ought to provide all the Doof you, your DJ friends or your neighbours could ever want.
You will need more drivers and amplifier channels than you have budgeted for, but the costs are not too extreme.

Eric.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg series1large.jpeg (31.2 KB, 428 views)
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2003, 07:27 PM   #3
Turboegt is offline Turboegt  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL
Send a message via AIM to Turboegt
Yes, I knew Genisis did it along with a few others like Infinity. I have not found any smaller drivers that can get down very low for a small cost and still produce high SPL. I want to keep total cost of the drivers and amps at about what I could sell my old sub for, $500-$600. Thats my way of justifying such a monster sub setup, .I have modeled quit a few over the past few days and so but the 295-490 12" dayton DVC sub seen to look the best. Modeling four per tower the responce is quit flat with an F3 of about 32Hz. Only bad thing is the enclosures would have to be quit large. I want to know what you think this will sound like in a room. Again I have been out of the home side of DIY audio so I am not quit sure if this will go low enough.

I am looking for other peoples opinions so feel free to jump in here. Also, does the WinISD software take into account room gains or is there a way to set it to do so. Feel free to model this setup and tell me what you think.

THANKS!

Rick
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2003, 08:47 PM   #4
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
diyAudio Member
 
LineSource's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SiliconValley
Default RADIATION PATTERN

Bass Line Arrays are usually constructed to match the radiation pattern and integration requirements of a linearray or linesource midrange and tweeter. Multiple bass speakers provide enough air volume displacement to act as both woofer and subwoofer down to 20Hz.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2003, 09:27 PM   #5
Turboegt is offline Turboegt  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL
Send a message via AIM to Turboegt
Thanks for the replay.

Are you talking about using the main line array fullrange? I was thinking that it would be better to not overstress a bunch of 5.25" speakers and just biuld some sub towers. I guess the theory I am looking to test here is that a good number of cheaper drivers setup right and not overstressed can sound pretty barn good and be able to high some pretty high SPL as well. I was planning on biulding two close to fullrange towers using 8 5.25" drivers per tower and of course tweeters too. I have been reading as much as I can about line arrays and I think for the wide range of listening I do that this concept would work out great.

More input would be great here.

Rick
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2003, 02:35 AM   #6
Turboegt is offline Turboegt  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL
Send a message via AIM to Turboegt
Anyone, more input would be great. I know there are some LA experts in here somewhere.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2003, 03:37 AM   #7
kelticwizard is offline kelticwizard  United States
Wizard of Kelts
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Connecticut, The Nutmeg State
Help with line source array subs!?!?!
If you are going to use this for a sub, have you considered arranging the drivers in a square pattern instead of a vertical pattern? By square pattern, I mean this:

00
00


Reason? Four speakers arranged like that apparently increase sensitivity by ~6 dB over a single speaker-that is to say, four 90 dB speakers arranged in the above patter become one 96 dB speaker. Four 90 dB speakers arranged vertically become one 92 dB speaker. You get 4 dB or so extra output for the same power input by arranging them in a square pattern.
__________________
"A friend will help you move. A really good friend will help you move a body."
-Anonymous
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2003, 03:59 AM   #8
Turboegt is offline Turboegt  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL
Send a message via AIM to Turboegt
Thanks for the sugestion. I was under the impression that line arrays would do about the same thing. Plus I dont have that much floor space for that config. That is one reason why I was going up in the first place, LOL.

Main think I was looking for here was if anyone had any comments of the in room responce of this setup but again any sujections are welcome.


Rick
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2003, 04:42 PM   #9
brsanko is offline brsanko  United States
diyAudio Member
 
brsanko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Duluth, MN
Send a message via MSN to brsanko
Default smaller subs

If you want a good speaker for a line array sub that wouldn't have to be so freakin' huge you could try the MCM 55-1170 6" woofer it'll go down to 26 hz or so in a 1 cubic ft box and has an spl of 92db and the best part is they only cost about 10 bucks. I have a few of them and the make some great bass. as for your wide range line array have you considered the Tangband drivers also quite inexpensive and they wouldn't require tweeters.
__________________
PASSIONN
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2003, 11:01 AM   #10
Turboegt is offline Turboegt  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: FL
Send a message via AIM to Turboegt
brsanko,

My plan was to use either those drivers are the ones almost just like them that Parts Express sells, still modeling the options. My plan was to use 8 drivers per fullrange tower. Still not sure if I am going to go open baffle, sealed, or vented yet. I think I am going toward open baffle. I have bipoler DefTech speakers all around now and really like that sound. I am still up in the air about tweeters as well but thought it would be crazy to get about 50 of these, 25 a side mounted from the rear of the front baffle and crossing them over pretty high. I know this goes against the theories of LA but I futured I would give it a try. I did find a guy that did just that and according to him they sounded give, you never know though. Maybe playing with the phase plugs also.

I have been reading everything I can find on LAs but just about all have said it might be a good idea, specailly for HT use, to have some really good subs. As I stated in my first post my listening situations very quit a bit. THere are times when I love to just relax by myself with some good quality music and other time I truely do ask a lot out of my setup.

I have been thinking way to much laterly on this whole project. Here are a few more ideas I have come up with.....keep in mind I like to do things a little out of the norm. I will probably be powering the fullrange towers with my belove Nikko Alpha amps, one stereo amp per tower, one channel for midbass, one of highs (the reasson for using this way is coming). I know alot of people would probably frown on these amps but they sound better then my Pioneer Elite receiver and way better then my old Adcom GFA-2 (big bright tin can, LOL) but I have been quit surprised with there sound as have other that have auditioned them so I am stick with them, at least for now. Of course the subs are going to be active so I was thinking of mounting the sub amp and the fullrange amps in the lower section of the fullrange tower. It would not be the hard for me to modify the Nikko amps so that they would fit nicely on the plate like a sub amp and just mount the triod in the bottom. I could also wip up an active crossover to make it easier to play with OX pionts and gains, maybe a few simple clipping inducators and of cousre you cant forget the ever so high end blue LED. Basically intergrat everything nicely into one simple but flexable package. I think this would help simplify things a bit: one singal in, one AC plug per side. Then all I would needs is a nice cable from the fullrange towers to the subs.

Again I know this is alittle crazy sounding but the more I have been thinking about it and researching it the more I really would like to try it. I might take awhile and go throught some upgrades but that is half the fun, right?

Thanks agian for the responces....hope more are to come.

PS - any comments of my sub design, specifically in room responce!?!?!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Help with line source array subs!?!?!Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how to combine Line array and transmission line together Jared Multi-Way 7 15th December 2012 01:20 PM
Tymphany LAT250 line source array? elves1111 Planars & Exotics 11 17th September 2011 08:03 AM
line-array vs conventional point-source/ distorsions issues crazyhub Multi-Way 26 2nd July 2007 12:03 AM
Line array tweeter line - On left or right? dhenryp Multi-Way 4 9th March 2005 11:35 PM
t-line subs for a DIY line array tom1356 Multi-Way 17 28th December 2002 12:15 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:14 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.79%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki