Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th November 2013, 09:34 PM   #1
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ATL
Default Desirable traits for nearfield/desktop setup

Most of the “think-piece” threads on this forum (ideal directivity pattern, uniform pattern, beyond the Ariel, etc.) expressly or impliedly focus on setups in domestic living rooms.

However, many of us enjoy music while sitting at desks with computer screens in front of us. Yet (so far as I could find at least) there wasn't a thread about designing speakers expressly for nearfield/desktop setups. (There are several individual build threads, of course.) The serious literature on preferences in desktop/nearfield loudspeakers is also surprisingly scant, or at least inaccessible. For instance, Dr. Toole’s outstanding lit review, Sound Reproduction, does not have a section about nearfield listening, and for that matter does not even contain the word "desktop!" (The word "desk" appears once, in a § 4.2, "Offices and Industrial Spaces," at 52.)

So, why not start something? Let's proceed from the following five reasonable assumptions:
  • there is fairly large monitor (or iMac, etc.) maybe a little more than arm’s length from the listener and roughly centered in front of her/him;
  • there is a largely flat, hard desktop between the speakers and listener, and the surface of said desktop cannot be made absorbent on both aesthetic (it’s ugly) and utilitarian (sometimes you a desk must provide a hard surface for writing/drawing) grounds;
  • the speakers are fairly close to the listener, and in close to the same vertical plane as the monitor;
  • 2 or 2.1 channels; and
  • the goal of the system is primarily (or exclusively music) reproduction, not music production.

Two questions:

1) What do you think are desirable traits for loudspeakers expressly designed for nearfield/desktop use?

2) What do you think is the best way to place loudspeakers for nearfield/desktop listening (above the monitor, beside the monitor, flat or toed-in; equilateral triangle or wider/narrower; etc,)?
__________________
Serious Audio Blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2013, 09:46 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
vinylkid58's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Like this:

jeff
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mMar-Ken6p.JPG (709.4 KB, 238 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2013, 09:46 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
I'd thought this was pretty simple:
2-way system, based on 5.5 to 7" mid woofer.
sb satori, accuton, illuminator or revelator, to personal pref.

1st order if you can get away with it, if not 4th.
tweeters at ear height, top of the monitor at eye height. Each speaker at rear corners of desk raised on shelves if necessary. They can be mounted on top of a neoprene mat with a weight on top to improve response.

Provided on axis response is flat, aim each speaker about 2-4" from your ear canal. They shouldn't be toe'd-in more than 25 degrees.


Bingo, stereo imaging and great sound quality....

I'm not sure the need for deep discussion?
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th November 2013, 10:17 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallas View Post
1) What do you think are desirable traits for loudspeakers expressly designed for nearfield/desktop use?
- accurate and smooth response, but tilted treble to compensate for the short distance to the listener.

- if 2-way, as close to a point source as possible, with the crossover points, driver selection, and careful phase tracking necessary to that end (because small movements mean large angle changes at close range).

- narrow directivity down to/past the frequency range of desktop reflections would be nice, but of course you usually end up with the opposite, in which case I'll take constant/smooth directivity (see previous point).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pallas View Post
2) What do you think is the best way to place loudspeakers for nearfield/desktop listening (above the monitor, beside the monitor, flat or toed-in; equilateral triangle or wider/narrower; etc,)? [/B]
Depends on the speaker and situation, I suppose. I have mine (JBL LSR2325) equilateral and right at my ears (vertical and horizontal), pulled pretty far forward, but I used to have desktop monitors mounted about 1' above, well off the wall, and angled down such that there was no desk reflection to speak of, and I liked that a lot for music. A little strange if you want to watch a video or play a game or anything, though.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2013, 03:18 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Moondog55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norlane; Geelong: Victoria: Australia
Funny time ( and fortunate) to post as a computer system is high on my agenda; currently no music at all for me in that room.
1500 wide hutch so speakers mounted to the sides of that will demand some toe-in won't it? I have to tilt them down as they'll need to sit higher than my ears
I'm thinking small midrange drivers 70mm and a small Neo tweeter MTM and a decent small woofer 150mm or so and a subwoofer if needed between my feet under the desk. So yes as close to a point source as possible and I never really thought about a downward sloping HF but as I will be using the Vifa DN 26 silk dome that is already a given
__________________
QUOTE" The more I know, the more I know, I know (insert maniacal laugh >here<) NOTHING"
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2013, 03:37 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Melo theory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Gulfport fl.
How about these little gems
Desktop Dipole Monitors
__________________
I LIKE YOU
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2013, 03:37 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
picowallspeaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
I'm finally doing things that are on my agenda, and one is to put all those chipamps
I have around ( BA-LA-TDA,etc all with output cap and Vs=12-30 V ) in a case with the trafo and outputs. Next is to find suitable speakers& boxes. I had a pair of unused 2"- they were used as mid-tweeter- and I put them in about 1/2 liter box. Very good.

About the sound of the iMac, I've used to have the old one ( white and thick ) and the sound was rather good. Now I have the new silver one, which is thin and I wondered where the sound came from: there are some fessures in the bottom, so the waves are "convoluted". So, also the old iMac must have used that trick!
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2013, 03:55 AM   #8
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinylkid58 View Post
Like this:

jeff
Mine.Sometimes i use them with a woofer.

Click the image to open in full size.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2013, 10:49 PM   #9
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ATL
Lots of interesting designs posted in around DIYA, but posting a design doesn't say much about the why one chose that particular configuration (mere brand-names of parts are irrelevant), and how one determined speaker placement given the physical constraints of a desktop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumptruck View Post
- accurate and smooth response, but tilted treble to compensate for the short distance to the listener.
That's what I would have intuited, as well. But then I tried speakers with this response and polar map:
Click the image to open in full size.

And really, really like them.

The target curve is downwards-tilted, but not very much: but only about 2dB from 2kHz-10kHz. (The speakers are mounted slightly above my ears, but not very much. They are toed in but not tilted.) I thought they might sound zippy or fatiguing, but they don't.

I'm also very curious about dipoles at the desk, too. I've heard them a few times, but not for a long time. (My high school girlfriend's dad had the Eminent Technology desktop set in his study, back in the day was a 14" CRT was the standard monitor.) I'm not generally a dipole/OB fan in the living room, but I can see one potential advantage to dipole/OB: the monitor can be "in the null." Also, arguably the backwave reflections could increase perceived spaciousness (something generally lacking in desktop listening) depending on their distance to the front wall. Or they could just smear things. Contrarily, a cardoid could avoid interactions with the backwall, or maybe even if aimed right limit desktop reflections.

That said, I did a quick peak at Sweetwater, and could not find a single dipole speaker sold as a "nearfield monitor" that was anything but a monopole. Ditto for Musicians Friend, Guitar Center, and Sam Ash. So it seems in the professional nearfield monitor market (which is, admittedly, out of the scope of this topic; see fifth assumption, supra) dipoles are even more a non-factor than they are in so-called high-end home audio.

What would be especially interesting to see here is, does anyone's preference flip? I.e. anyone have a strong preference monopoles over dipoles in the living room but dipoles over monopoles on the desktop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumptruck View Post
Depends on the speaker and situation, I suppose. I have mine (JBL LSR2325) equilateral and right at my ears (vertical and horizontal), pulled pretty far forward, but I used to have desktop monitors mounted about 1' above, well off the wall, and angled down such that there was no desk reflection to speak of, and I liked that a lot for music. A little strange if you want to watch a video or play a game or anything, though.
Interesting thought, that a layout fine for enjoying music might be weird for watching a video. I hadn't considered that.

FWIW, I've generally placed my desktop speakers peeking out above the monitor. The speakers I use are fairly wide, I'm loathe to give up desk real estate, and my desk is functionally asymmetrical (drawers on one side). I don't know if that's the best way to go or not. Nor, for that matter, if moderately wide controlled directivity monopoles are the way to go. Hence the topic.
__________________
Serious Audio Blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2013, 02:02 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Interesting topic Pallas......and as a member and frequent poster over at CA, developing the ideal desktop speaker has been high on my list. I've thought about almost everything you've mentioned and came up with some parameters along the way from a design standpoint. I'm in the process of asking some fellow CA members for info about their current desk particulars such as up against a wall, window, corner, hutch on top.....there's so many variables to consider.

But given some basic common placements, I'm considering full range drivers as an ideal solution for desktop use......where otherwise I find them unacceptable.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alpair 6p vs 6m vs 7.3 for a budget nearfield setup limyang Markaudio 20 28th November 2012 09:25 PM
FR plan for desktop/nearfield? uFonken? mMar-Ken70? matt_garman Full Range 6 17th August 2012 02:14 PM
Desktop headphone setup advice roadlesstraveled PC Based 2 15th November 2011 11:54 PM
Characteristics/Traits of Tube Amp speaker percy Multi-Way 2 14th December 2004 09:41 PM
mini surround sound setup plan for nearfield iyo Chip Amps 0 16th October 2003 09:23 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:24 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2