I have searched and read up on this in a few posts but before I make an order on these parts I want to double check that I understand this and that my plan is a good one.
I am planning to put together a car audio component system on the cheap.
Tweeter
Pyle PLST6 1/2" Neodymium Tweeter Pair | 267-748
Woofer
https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-...4-ohm--299-609
Crossover
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-AUDIOPIPE-...item1e807558eb
Now my question is this :
Tweeter has a sensitivity of 92db 1W/1m
Woofer has a sensitivity of 88.3db 2.83v/1m
They are both 4 ohms, I think I understand that companies use the 2.83v to raise sensitivity by 3db. So in 1W/1M the woofer sensitivity is 85.3db 1W/1M.
I will pad the tweeter then by 6.7db (92db - 85.3 = 6.7db)
I then used this calculator :
L pad calculator - attenuation dB damping impedance decibel loudspeaker speaker voltage divider - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin
Inputting 4 ohms and desired attenuation of 6.7db. I received for my resistor values
(the below R1 and R2 if you click the calculator link above, will show a diagram which may be easier to visualize)
l-pad
R1 (serial) = 2.15 ohms
R2 (parallel) = 3.44 ohms
in the other section of the results it says
single resistor :
4.65ohms
Question : Does that single resistor mean I can place a ~4.5ohm resistor in line on the positive speaker wire going to the tweeter and will give me my desired 7db tweeter attenuation. Also do I need a specific rated resistor to handle the power will a 4.5ohm 10W resistor suffice.
Another question : If the answer to the last question is yes. Is there a advantage to using the l-pad resistor configuration (two resistors) or the single resistor configuration?
I have tried to explain my question as thoroughly as possible, I appreciate anyone taking their time to help me clear up my confusion before I order my components.
I am planning to put together a car audio component system on the cheap.
Tweeter
Pyle PLST6 1/2" Neodymium Tweeter Pair | 267-748
Woofer
https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-...4-ohm--299-609
Crossover
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-AUDIOPIPE-...item1e807558eb
Now my question is this :
Tweeter has a sensitivity of 92db 1W/1m
Woofer has a sensitivity of 88.3db 2.83v/1m
They are both 4 ohms, I think I understand that companies use the 2.83v to raise sensitivity by 3db. So in 1W/1M the woofer sensitivity is 85.3db 1W/1M.
I will pad the tweeter then by 6.7db (92db - 85.3 = 6.7db)
I then used this calculator :
L pad calculator - attenuation dB damping impedance decibel loudspeaker speaker voltage divider - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin
Inputting 4 ohms and desired attenuation of 6.7db. I received for my resistor values
(the below R1 and R2 if you click the calculator link above, will show a diagram which may be easier to visualize)
l-pad
R1 (serial) = 2.15 ohms
R2 (parallel) = 3.44 ohms
in the other section of the results it says
single resistor :
4.65ohms
Question : Does that single resistor mean I can place a ~4.5ohm resistor in line on the positive speaker wire going to the tweeter and will give me my desired 7db tweeter attenuation. Also do I need a specific rated resistor to handle the power will a 4.5ohm 10W resistor suffice.
Another question : If the answer to the last question is yes. Is there a advantage to using the l-pad resistor configuration (two resistors) or the single resistor configuration?
I have tried to explain my question as thoroughly as possible, I appreciate anyone taking their time to help me clear up my confusion before I order my components.
Hi,
Q1 - Yes, and 10W would be fine.
Q2 - Yes it will keep the impedance the same for the crossover
Audiopipe Pair of 2 Way Car Audio Passive Crossovers | eBay
If thats what your considering note that your bass
mids are designed not to need a crossover. Also
those tweeters come with 12dB/oct crossovers.
So basically you don't need the extra crossovers.
Just L-pad the tweeter after the supplied crossovers.
rgds, sreten.
Pretty good budget plan, worth posting in Car Audio.
The bass drivers should be fine in car doors, no box.
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Since you are setting tweeter attenuation purely on specs, I don't know why you wouldn't either buy a variable L pad attenuator or a variety of low value resistors to set treble level by ear.
You are going for precission in calculation when you may not like the end result without some experimentation.
David
You are going for precission in calculation when you may not like the end result without some experimentation.
David
sreten - Thank you so much for your response I am ordering parts now, and the impendence being the same sounds important so I will be using the l-pad configuration for the resistors. Oh and also not needing a crossover for the speakers is fantastic because my friend who we're installing this for is a cheapo.
speaker dave - Your assessment on setting attenuation based on calculations alone and not giving a desired result makes sense to me. I will take your advice and go back to the calculator and purchase a variety of resistors based on a few different values.
Thanks again guys for all the help and can't wait to keep learning from you.
I will report back after installation and give an assessment on the sound quality that this setup delivers. Hopefully it sounds good haha.
speaker dave - Your assessment on setting attenuation based on calculations alone and not giving a desired result makes sense to me. I will take your advice and go back to the calculator and purchase a variety of resistors based on a few different values.
Thanks again guys for all the help and can't wait to keep learning from you.
I will report back after installation and give an assessment on the sound quality that this setup delivers. Hopefully it sounds good haha.
Hey Cal thanks for your advice on the l-pad. I would use the l-pads if these were going in my car but since they're going into my friends car I don't want to much adjustability for other people to mess with it. Which I found a nuisance when I put a graphic eq in the dash for my sisters car. She'd call me up to fix the settings every time one of her friends got in and started playing around with it haha.
Hi,
The only problem with variable L-pads is they don't come in 4 ohms.
And that complicates things far too much to sensibly use them
in this very budget build. Resistors to use are 2.2R and 3.3R.
IMO 3W (or 5W) resistors would fine for both.
Edit : you have made a mistake in assuming the bassmids
are 3dB lower due to 4ohms whilst the 4ohm tweeters are
not. On paper you need 4dB attenuation. Its a common
problem, the tweeters are not 95dB/2.83V/1m.
With no curves for either driver but a reasonable assumption
the add on tweeters will match a crossoverless driver I do
think the OP is approaching it right, just match sensitivities.
Compensation for different conditions should be in the electronics.
rgds, sreten.
The only problem with variable L-pads is they don't come in 4 ohms.
And that complicates things far too much to sensibly use them
in this very budget build. Resistors to use are 2.2R and 3.3R.
IMO 3W (or 5W) resistors would fine for both.
Edit : you have made a mistake in assuming the bassmids
are 3dB lower due to 4ohms whilst the 4ohm tweeters are
not. On paper you need 4dB attenuation. Its a common
problem, the tweeters are not 95dB/2.83V/1m.
With no curves for either driver but a reasonable assumption
the add on tweeters will match a crossoverless driver I do
think the OP is approaching it right, just match sensitivities.
Compensation for different conditions should be in the electronics.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
UPDATE ON BUDGET CAR SPEAKER PROJECT
I just got back from installing it, yes on Thanksgiving night. What a wonderful way to spend my afternoon you might say. Well honestly it wasn't bad since I enjoy doing these kinds of things.
Things I learned : (I find myself always learning something doing any kind of project because of unforeseen issues and this was no different.
1.) Although the vehicle I was working on utilized 6.5" woofers in the front. Being that it is automotive speaker sizing, what ended up happening was that the sheet metal speaker hole was too small to accommodate the larger basket frame of the 6.5" woofer I utilized from partsexpress.com
Solutions : If you have a way to cut a hole in pretty substantial sheet metal to make the hole larger. Or you could do what I did, seeing that the vehicle door panels have a lot of room behind the grill. I placed a foam speaker baffle into the hole, then proceeded to place the speaker as far in as it would go. Then utilizing long screws proceeded to screw the speaker into the hole, the speaker ended up sticking out about .5". This isn't ideal but it didn't sound bad, and with the foam speaker baffle it sealed it semi-decently.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED :
FOAM SPEAKER BAFFLES
2.) The tweeter utilized had no documents on how to mount them in the vehicle, so in the end I ended up drilling the hole, placing the tweeters into holes and screwing 2 tiny holes around the outer perimeter of the tweeters. Utilized the provided screws to screw them right into the a pillars. They provide some metal brackets but I just couldn't figure out how to utilize those so I gave up on them.
DETAILS ON ATTENUATION :
I ended up using 2ohms for Resistor 1, and 3.3ohms for Resistor 2. I chose these values because they were readily available at partsexpress.com.
I found that these were good resistor values to use but if I was to be picky, the tweeters were attenuated just a tad too much. I also believe that the crossovers provided with the tweeters may have added attenuation, because they had one capacitor and one resistor inside. The deck that these speakers were to be powered by has a built in 7 band equalizer, so the tweeter attenuation was close enough and I was able to dial it in to a good balance of highs and mids.
After dialing it in, here are the settings that I utilized on a Sony CD Deck 7 band EQ.
Band 1 = -3
Band 2 = -2
Band 3 = -1
Band 4 = 0
Band 5 = +1
Band 6 = +2
Band 7 = +1
HOW DOES IT SOUND?
It sounds good, I was pleased with the results and my friend was ecstatic about the sound. Of course his background in audio is generic ipod earphones and stock car stereo systems but coming from aftermarket pioneer coaxial door speakers to these was a huge improvement. I ended up using those coaxials in the rear of the vehicle so they didn't go to waste.
IN DETAIL :
Pre EQ settings there was a hump in the mid register, vocals in certain pitches would resonate and the sound was unpleasant after EQ this was fixed. The woofer and the tweeter match well and no audible missing spectrum of music it's all there. The tweeter does a great job with the highs, cymbals come through clear and the treble is strong. I wouldn't say it's very refined, it doesn't articulate the details of the treble, it's just there but it wouldn't be very well suited for those who seek the small details like the faint dying of a cymbal or the faint s sounds of female vocals. The woofer is terrible with any kind of bass but in car audio this isn't an issue because that's where subwoofers come in. I EQ'd all the bass out of the sound spectrum and some of the mids to get rid of the hump. The sound is pleasant and smooth. Vocals come through clearly and sound quite natural. If you like music loud, this setup should please. It was able to get quite loud before discoloring and falling apart.
The casing the tweeter sits in is very misleading, the actual tweeter size is tiny because it sits in the center and takes very little space. The size of the tweeter is most likely the attributing factor to the fact that it cannot articulate anything. But sound quite tinny.
As I cranked up the volume but the music began to turn into something closer to noise, it became slightly chaotic and unpleasant to listen to. I don't blame the speakers for most of this, I would attribute this to the fact that we're running these speakers straight off the deck. If a 4 channel amplifier was utilized here, I am certain the sound would improve greatly. If an external equalizer of decent quality was also utilized the sound would improve that much more.
I am not an expert in car audio and haven't listened to too many speakers in the car audio field I'm more acquainted with home audio but if I had to say a comparable price range for these speakers if one was to buy components already assembled for their vehicle I think it's safe to say these would be comparable to $100.00 components at the minimum. Considering a pair of these comes right around $20.00 with resistors for attenuation, this is a steal.
The reason for the significant eq settings is that in the lower registers any time there's a hit or beat drop in the music the speakers will try to get there but it just sounds like a small speaker trying to make bass, it doesn't distort but it's not a good sound. It's a distracting sound from the music.
CONCLUSION :
Would I recommend these speakers, well if you're aware of the minor installation issues that these speakers may have, then YES I would definitely recommend them. Anyone who doesn't like this setup is expecting $200 speakers from $20.00. I would say these speakers will be an improvement over most car audio systems that aren't name brand speaker systems like bose or infinity.
NOTE : When we get the subwoofers in, hopefully tomorrow. I will update and as the speakers break in I'm sure the sound will continue to improve.
I just got back from installing it, yes on Thanksgiving night. What a wonderful way to spend my afternoon you might say. Well honestly it wasn't bad since I enjoy doing these kinds of things.
Things I learned : (I find myself always learning something doing any kind of project because of unforeseen issues and this was no different.
1.) Although the vehicle I was working on utilized 6.5" woofers in the front. Being that it is automotive speaker sizing, what ended up happening was that the sheet metal speaker hole was too small to accommodate the larger basket frame of the 6.5" woofer I utilized from partsexpress.com
Solutions : If you have a way to cut a hole in pretty substantial sheet metal to make the hole larger. Or you could do what I did, seeing that the vehicle door panels have a lot of room behind the grill. I placed a foam speaker baffle into the hole, then proceeded to place the speaker as far in as it would go. Then utilizing long screws proceeded to screw the speaker into the hole, the speaker ended up sticking out about .5". This isn't ideal but it didn't sound bad, and with the foam speaker baffle it sealed it semi-decently.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED :
FOAM SPEAKER BAFFLES
2.) The tweeter utilized had no documents on how to mount them in the vehicle, so in the end I ended up drilling the hole, placing the tweeters into holes and screwing 2 tiny holes around the outer perimeter of the tweeters. Utilized the provided screws to screw them right into the a pillars. They provide some metal brackets but I just couldn't figure out how to utilize those so I gave up on them.
DETAILS ON ATTENUATION :
I ended up using 2ohms for Resistor 1, and 3.3ohms for Resistor 2. I chose these values because they were readily available at partsexpress.com.
I found that these were good resistor values to use but if I was to be picky, the tweeters were attenuated just a tad too much. I also believe that the crossovers provided with the tweeters may have added attenuation, because they had one capacitor and one resistor inside. The deck that these speakers were to be powered by has a built in 7 band equalizer, so the tweeter attenuation was close enough and I was able to dial it in to a good balance of highs and mids.
After dialing it in, here are the settings that I utilized on a Sony CD Deck 7 band EQ.
Band 1 = -3
Band 2 = -2
Band 3 = -1
Band 4 = 0
Band 5 = +1
Band 6 = +2
Band 7 = +1
HOW DOES IT SOUND?
It sounds good, I was pleased with the results and my friend was ecstatic about the sound. Of course his background in audio is generic ipod earphones and stock car stereo systems but coming from aftermarket pioneer coaxial door speakers to these was a huge improvement. I ended up using those coaxials in the rear of the vehicle so they didn't go to waste.
IN DETAIL :
Pre EQ settings there was a hump in the mid register, vocals in certain pitches would resonate and the sound was unpleasant after EQ this was fixed. The woofer and the tweeter match well and no audible missing spectrum of music it's all there. The tweeter does a great job with the highs, cymbals come through clear and the treble is strong. I wouldn't say it's very refined, it doesn't articulate the details of the treble, it's just there but it wouldn't be very well suited for those who seek the small details like the faint dying of a cymbal or the faint s sounds of female vocals. The woofer is terrible with any kind of bass but in car audio this isn't an issue because that's where subwoofers come in. I EQ'd all the bass out of the sound spectrum and some of the mids to get rid of the hump. The sound is pleasant and smooth. Vocals come through clearly and sound quite natural. If you like music loud, this setup should please. It was able to get quite loud before discoloring and falling apart.
The casing the tweeter sits in is very misleading, the actual tweeter size is tiny because it sits in the center and takes very little space. The size of the tweeter is most likely the attributing factor to the fact that it cannot articulate anything. But sound quite tinny.
As I cranked up the volume but the music began to turn into something closer to noise, it became slightly chaotic and unpleasant to listen to. I don't blame the speakers for most of this, I would attribute this to the fact that we're running these speakers straight off the deck. If a 4 channel amplifier was utilized here, I am certain the sound would improve greatly. If an external equalizer of decent quality was also utilized the sound would improve that much more.
I am not an expert in car audio and haven't listened to too many speakers in the car audio field I'm more acquainted with home audio but if I had to say a comparable price range for these speakers if one was to buy components already assembled for their vehicle I think it's safe to say these would be comparable to $100.00 components at the minimum. Considering a pair of these comes right around $20.00 with resistors for attenuation, this is a steal.
The reason for the significant eq settings is that in the lower registers any time there's a hit or beat drop in the music the speakers will try to get there but it just sounds like a small speaker trying to make bass, it doesn't distort but it's not a good sound. It's a distracting sound from the music.
CONCLUSION :
Would I recommend these speakers, well if you're aware of the minor installation issues that these speakers may have, then YES I would definitely recommend them. Anyone who doesn't like this setup is expecting $200 speakers from $20.00. I would say these speakers will be an improvement over most car audio systems that aren't name brand speaker systems like bose or infinity.
NOTE : When we get the subwoofers in, hopefully tomorrow. I will update and as the speakers break in I'm sure the sound will continue to improve.
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