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Old 5th November 2013, 04:44 AM   #11
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Thanks a lot for the Jim for the White Papers.

I will definitely be active, that was the plan from the start!
And I am definitely not buying anything yet That's why I checked with you guys.

Quote:
Finally, invest in some good measuring tools like a calibrated usb microphone, without something like that you are flying blind.
I am still looking for a one that you guys might recommend.
I have also heard there is a "thump" noise for behringer units.

I don't think I'll be maxing out the amps on the XPA-1s I'm waiting for the Gen 2 to come out with 60 watts of class A. I think I won't come anywhere close to audible distortion

Atm the specs are at
1,000 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
500 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)

And bench tests
Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblock Power Amplifier - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

So should I buy these drivers to try in a small 2 or 3 way bookshelf or floor standing speaker first?
I know that line arrays are very different though, but at least I know what they sound like in different configurations.

I currently have a pt-7030 which is very good compared to my previous Yamaha. I currently have my Parasound A21 as the AMP. It sound is clear and almost 3D?

I'm not really sure as to what electronics you think I should get. My mind is definitely set on getting MICs for calibration and then Dirac in February next year with the new pre/pro.
I will still need a recommendation so I can look up these things...

Quote:
It's basically a bad idea to get ambitious as your first project. If you really want a high end line array, just contact Rick Craig directly and ask him to design one for you. He charges quite reasonable fees for doing so and has LOT more experience with line arrays than you will ever likely have.
I have noticed Rick has quite a few line arrays, obviously I cannot even compare to him since he does it as a living and acquiring knowledge/experience from using so many drivers. I have seen his Tempestas as well with the accuton drivers. He would probably have more experience then most people on here... I still want his raal+scanspeak Line array. But I also want to learn as well and understand why something is implemented. That's why I'm here right? How much does he generally charge? Does he explain why something is done a certain way?

I'm the kinda guy that wants every detail. Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.
If there is more info like white papers etc that would be great. I'm still interested in any information and experiences including books that are recommended.

Some time ago I was told by Rick that a Line Array is better for my setup. I didn't ask him much since he's running a business.

Anyways, I'm still here to look for information. Obviously we can't buy every single driver in the world right?

I really don't care if anyone overwhelms me with information

At some point in my lifetime I hope I am gonna build some sort of an array :P
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Old 5th November 2013, 05:32 AM   #12
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Completely off topic, but how is the video switching speed with the 7030? I have the 7020 and it is painfully slow compared to how fast my TV can switch inputs. I am considering an upgrade to the 7030. Isn't it fully balanced like the XMC-1 will be? Edit: just found this: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/t...-thread?page=7

Thanks!

Last edited by architect7; 5th November 2013 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 5th November 2013, 05:32 AM   #13
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Another line array paper (Taylor 1964)

http://p10hifi.net/TLS/downloads/taylor-line-array.pdf

dave
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Old 5th November 2013, 05:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Completely off topic, but how is the video switching speed with the 7030? I have the 7020 and it is painfully slow compared to how fast my TV can switch inputs. I am considering an upgrade to the 7030. Isn't it fully balanced like the XMC-1 will be?

Thanks!
I can try when I hook up another source maybe today or tomorrow. I think it's maybe a second. Atm, I only use my computer as my source. The PT 7030 is not fully balanced according to Andrew Robinson and the one of the Sherbourn guys I believe.

And thanks for Papers Dave!

Last edited by A RandomGuy; 5th November 2013 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 5th November 2013, 07:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
I can try when I hook up another source maybe today or tomorrow. I think it's maybe a second. Atm, I only use my computer as my source. The PT 7030 is not fully balanced according to Andrew Robinson and the one of the Sherbourn guys I believe.

And thanks for Papers Dave!
Thanks! After some quick research, that will be amazing to have fully balanced analog with the XMC-1. Looks like I will cancel my Marantz upgrade and wait for the Emotiva instead

And best of luck with your project. I run a "simple" system with RAAL tweeter, SEAS W15CY mid and SEAS W22EX woofer, 1 of each per channel, all open baffle and the results are astounding. And SPL is a non issue, I haven't officially measured it but it will crank distortion free far beyond my comfort zone. Which is impressive because I like to listen LOUD on occasion. Imaging is incredible as well. My only gripe is mid-bass "kick" which I will be fixing with a pair of W22EX woofers per side, sealed.

I also agree with many others here regarding the ambition of your first project. I am on my 3rd (or 4th?) iteration of my project in 2 years and I am glad I never invested a great deal in baffles/enclosure/finish because of how much I have learned about my own tastes which has driven new designs and lots of scrapped MDF. I love how things sound now but of course I have my eyes on other mids/woofers...such is the audio addiction.

Last edited by architect7; 5th November 2013 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 5th November 2013, 07:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
...and lots of scrapped MDF
And even more once you discover that MDF is not all that great a speaker building material

dave
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Old 5th November 2013, 10:18 AM   #17
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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I'd look at this thread for some inspiration:
My open baffle dipole with Beyma TPL-150

Another woofer worth considering might be the SB Acoustic Satori.

But it might be easier just to get a Danley setup and be done with it .
Have you seen what they do?
Check out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JceVrR1nR2Q
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Old 5th November 2013, 10:35 AM   #18
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Its an awful amount of money for something that is probably total
overkill, and IMO will have a lot of design issues that as a novice
you are probably blissfully unaware of. Not recommended.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 5th November 2013, 01:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
I am still looking for a one that you guys might recommend.
I have also heard there is a "thump" noise for behringer units.
I believe this one is considered adiquate

Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB Measurement Microphone* 390-808

I know there is a thump issue with the MiniDSP units, but I don't recall seeing any similar issues with the Behringer units. Most pro-amps have some sort of max vol limiters that is I believe intended to protect against such things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
I don't think I'll be maxing out the amps on the XPA-1s I'm waiting for the Gen 2 to come out with 60 watts of class A. I think I won't come anywhere close to audible distortion
Unless you have extremely high efficiency speakers (100+db@1w) where the efficiency is close to the S/N ratio of the amp, if you have audible distortion your amplifier is busted.

Class A amps are VERY large and VERY heavy and waste a LOT of power. None of which are admirable traits IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
So should I buy these drivers to try in a small 2 or 3 way bookshelf or floor standing speaker first?
I know that line arrays are very different though, but at least I know what they sound like in different configurations.
A line array is a very different kind of speaker than a 2 or a 3 way conventional speaker. It really isn't going to tell you something useful about that.

If you do it, do it because you need the experience and practice with the little quirks and tricks of speaker building and/or you want some surround speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
I currently have a pt-7030 which is very good compared to my previous Yamaha. I currently have my Parasound A21 as the AMP. It sound is clear and almost 3D?
I would love to know how an amp without DSP makes sound "3D". If your amp is changing what you are hearing, it's not working properly. The purpose of an amp is to amplify a signal, not going and screwing with it (well at least if it's not a DSP amp..).

Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
I'm not really sure as to what electronics you think I should get. My mind is definitely set on getting MICs for calibration and then Dirac in February next year with the new pre/pro.
I will still need a recommendation so I can look up these things...
Personally, I would definitely wait until people have had some of the XMC-1s in their hands long enough to see how well they actually work. Emotiva makes some great amps and decent speakers, but their track record on Pre-pros is... not inspiring of confidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
I have noticed Rick has quite a few line arrays, obviously I cannot even compare to him since he does it as a living and acquiring knowledge/experience from using so many drivers. I have seen his Tempestas as well with the accuton drivers. He would probably have more experience then most people on here... I still want his raal+scanspeak Line array. But I also want to learn as well and understand why something is implemented. That's why I'm here right? How much does he generally charge? Does he explain why something is done a certain way?
As to what he charges, you should ask him that. Mine was a relatively straightforward 3 way wt an active crossover. That's a much easier thing to set up than a conventional crossover and much easier to experiment and tweek with. I'm not sure what else may be involved in doing a line array, it could be a lot more work, it could be less.

He was very responsive to question when I asked him, but I already knew enough to be dangerous and that I didn't want to be putting the expensive drivers I wanted to be using in my unskilled hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
I'm the kinda guy that wants every detail. Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.
You at least seem to understand that you don't understand, that puts you ahead of a lot of people who come here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A RandomGuy View Post
Some time ago I was told by Rick that a Line Array is better for my setup. I didn't ask him much since he's running a business.
As long as you respect the demands his business places on his time and aren't insisting that he respond instantly to a long email, I think he's willing to discuss with you what you want and where it's best to put your money.

He's got a web board for his company here that he talks about various projects he's working on and where people ask questions.
Selah Audio

Last edited by Generic George; 5th November 2013 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 5th November 2013, 03:03 PM   #20
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

Its an awful amount of money for something that is probably total
overkill, and IMO will have a lot of design issues that as a novice
you are probably blissfully unaware of. Not recommended.

rgds, sreten.
Hi,

Just add to the above if your heart is set in a line array do
so by all means but it needs to be very well thought out.

You could do very much worse than building these :

Click the image to open in full size.

CBT36 Line Array Speaker Kit Pair 301-980

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/...anual-9148.pdf

Add a couple of serious subs and your good to go.

A very sensible plan for a novice IMO.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 5th November 2013 at 03:19 PM.
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