Hi all,
I have a pair of axiom M22 bookshelf speakers driven by an old Sony receiver and an 18 year old 8” powered (100 W RMS) energy subwoofer. My only input is TOSLINK from my PC. My sub finally gave out (the driver, not the amp) a few weeks back, so I could just go out an buy a new sub but that sounds boring, so this is what I propose:
1. Build a new 12” or 15” sub cabinet. I’ll need a more powerful amp to drive it (I thinking of purchasing the Behringer Europower EP4000 for this purpose). This will be done last since it is work + $$$.
2. Take my old 8” sub box (ported, 19 L volume) and turn it into either a midbass or fullrange center channel. I can use the existing 100 W plate amp to drive it.
3. Crossover the four channels (axioms L+R, sub, center) with a miniDSP+miniDIGI setup.
My questions:
(a) Is it silly to try to use my old sub box as a center channel?
(b) Should I cross it as a midbass (using for instance the Seas U22REX/P-SL driver) or as a fullrange (Seas Prestige FA22RCZ). I modeled the former in winISD and it should be OK. I’m not sure about full range (or even wide range) drivers though and if this enclosure makes sense for them.
Anyway, any advice would be welcome as I clearly have no idea what I’m doing…
I have a pair of axiom M22 bookshelf speakers driven by an old Sony receiver and an 18 year old 8” powered (100 W RMS) energy subwoofer. My only input is TOSLINK from my PC. My sub finally gave out (the driver, not the amp) a few weeks back, so I could just go out an buy a new sub but that sounds boring, so this is what I propose:
1. Build a new 12” or 15” sub cabinet. I’ll need a more powerful amp to drive it (I thinking of purchasing the Behringer Europower EP4000 for this purpose). This will be done last since it is work + $$$.
2. Take my old 8” sub box (ported, 19 L volume) and turn it into either a midbass or fullrange center channel. I can use the existing 100 W plate amp to drive it.
3. Crossover the four channels (axioms L+R, sub, center) with a miniDSP+miniDIGI setup.
My questions:
(a) Is it silly to try to use my old sub box as a center channel?
(b) Should I cross it as a midbass (using for instance the Seas U22REX/P-SL driver) or as a fullrange (Seas Prestige FA22RCZ). I modeled the former in winISD and it should be OK. I’m not sure about full range (or even wide range) drivers though and if this enclosure makes sense for them.
Anyway, any advice would be welcome as I clearly have no idea what I’m doing…
Sorry if I was not clear. I don’t have a center channel at all now (I had a 2.1 setup), but I figured with my 8” sub blown I’d take the box and throw in a midrange or full range 8” driver (maybe the Dayton Audio PS220-8?) and use it as a center channel to improve the soundstage a little (the M22s sound a little thin sometimes). I’m just not sure how a box ported for a sub application will work for this.
Regarding how I plan to hook up the system in the future I will output my PC audio TOSLINK to a miniDSP 2X4 which will give me 4 channels (the mid-high L+R bookshelfs, the center, and a sub which I have yet to build). The Sony stereo receiver will power the bookshelfs, and the plate amp will power the center channel.
So I guess the real question is if I take a full range 8” driver and throw it in a 19 L ported subwoofer cabinet (and assuming proper crossover alignment) how will it sound? OK? Crap? Why? Keep in mind I will be adding a bigger sub later to cover the very low end.
Anyway, thanks for the help,
Pete
Regarding how I plan to hook up the system in the future I will output my PC audio TOSLINK to a miniDSP 2X4 which will give me 4 channels (the mid-high L+R bookshelfs, the center, and a sub which I have yet to build). The Sony stereo receiver will power the bookshelfs, and the plate amp will power the center channel.
So I guess the real question is if I take a full range 8” driver and throw it in a 19 L ported subwoofer cabinet (and assuming proper crossover alignment) how will it sound? OK? Crap? Why? Keep in mind I will be adding a bigger sub later to cover the very low end.
Anyway, thanks for the help,
Pete
Sounds like you would still end up with a 2.1 - if you only have the Sony and the plate amp.
You are over thinking the possibilities.
1. Forget the 8" sub box and full range speaker
2. The sub plate amp is only good to 200 - 400 hz save for the yet to build sub.
3. Need another 2 channel amp OR find 4 channel amplifier .
4. Build two bass bottoms for your bookshelf speakers.
5. Do not follow 2, 3 & 4 and build a nice/new set of speakers, there are plenty of kit projects out there.
What's the budget?
You are over thinking the possibilities.
1. Forget the 8" sub box and full range speaker
2. The sub plate amp is only good to 200 - 400 hz save for the yet to build sub.
3. Need another 2 channel amp OR find 4 channel amplifier .
4. Build two bass bottoms for your bookshelf speakers.
5. Do not follow 2, 3 & 4 and build a nice/new set of speakers, there are plenty of kit projects out there.
What's the budget?
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Hmmm… I never realized that a plate amp on a sub only had a limited frequency output. Shows what I know. Well, anyway, that bejiggered my plans. I will need another amp then. I like the bass bottoms idea. I think building completely new bookshelf speakers is a little over-ambitious though – baby steps and all that. I need to think about this a bit.
Regarding the bass bottoms: I’d just build two small boxes with a woofer inside (plus crossover if I don’t use the miniDSP) and put the bookshelf speakers on top?
Regarding the bass bottoms: I’d just build two small boxes with a woofer inside (plus crossover if I don’t use the miniDSP) and put the bookshelf speakers on top?
You are on to something now.
But most would use the Axioms with a sub - there would be a lot less wires, etc.
You have a working plate amp - just build a sub.
btw, M22 Bookshelf Speakers | Axiom Audio
But most would use the Axioms with a sub - there would be a lot less wires, etc.
You have a working plate amp - just build a sub.
btw, M22 Bookshelf Speakers | Axiom Audio
You have been to Parts Express web site: e.g.
Dayton Audio RSS210HF-4 8" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-456
Dayton Audio RSS210HF-4 8" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-456
Hi,
Its just a bad idea all round. The simplest is a bigger sub box
with a bigger higher sensitivity driver so it can go louder,
reusing the current plate amplifier, a 12" I'd say.
This : Bravox PXW12D-2 12" DVC Subwoofer 2 Ohm Per Coil 269-537
in the right box, sealed or vented with 100W looks very good to me.
So does this : Bravox PXW10D-2 10" DVC Subwoofer 2 Ohm Per Coil 269-519
in boxes about half the size for sealed or vented, a little less bass extension.
rgds, sreten.
Its just a bad idea all round. The simplest is a bigger sub box
with a bigger higher sensitivity driver so it can go louder,
reusing the current plate amplifier, a 12" I'd say.
This : Bravox PXW12D-2 12" DVC Subwoofer 2 Ohm Per Coil 269-537
in the right box, sealed or vented with 100W looks very good to me.
So does this : Bravox PXW10D-2 10" DVC Subwoofer 2 Ohm Per Coil 269-519
in boxes about half the size for sealed or vented, a little less bass extension.
rgds, sreten.
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Right, one big sub - two smaller ones would be the way to go. Lots of projects on the sub woofer forum; most are more efficient designs; they do tend to be larger.
More details about your size limitations would help.Where would you set a sub(s)?
Did you check the Crown amps btw? (to run subs) they have xo's built right into them. Don't forget both the Crown and Behringers have fans.
Crown XLS 2500 DriveCore Series Power Amplifier 245-506
Time to replace that Sony. Here's what I've had my eye on, local high end shop said these are out this week - but would be hard to find one (not imposable) a second release is scheduled mid December.
Product Lines > Halo > P 5 2.1 Channel Stereo Preamplifier
More details about your size limitations would help.Where would you set a sub(s)?
Did you check the Crown amps btw? (to run subs) they have xo's built right into them. Don't forget both the Crown and Behringers have fans.
Crown XLS 2500 DriveCore Series Power Amplifier 245-506
Time to replace that Sony. Here's what I've had my eye on, local high end shop said these are out this week - but would be hard to find one (not imposable) a second release is scheduled mid December.
Product Lines > Halo > P 5 2.1 Channel Stereo Preamplifier
So the room is ~ 13’ x 20 ‘, with the parallel 20 ‘ walls housing the Stereo/TV and couch respectively. I think I will build a bigger sub, probably a 12 “, but will not use the plate amp (I’m going to replace the driver and use it as a sub somewhere else). The sub will be in the corner near the TV probably (or beside the couch?).
I think I want to do that (build the sub) later though. First I would like to fill out the low-mid end which the bookshelf speakers have a little trouble with. I like the idea of two bass bottoms each with one woofer per, maybe running 100 – 3000 Hz, give or take. I can then add the sub to fill out below 100 Hz, and cross the bookshelf speakers to 3000 -20,000.
I’ll keep the Sony for use as an amp. The preamp you linked sure looks nice but is way out of my budget (which is somewhat flexible, but I have to stay under the wife’s radar – that is why a gradual approach is preferred). I would still like to use the $60 miniDIGI miniDIGI | MiniDSP to$80 miniDSP MiniDSP kit | MiniDSP. This will give me 4 crossed outputs, which, however, is not quite enough. I need 2 for the bookshelves, 2 for the bass bottoms, and one for the sub. I guess I could wire the two bass bottoms as mono, or I could get a sub (or amp) with built in crossover (I’d still have to get a signal to it somehow though).
I don’t want to use passive crossovers: they seem to require a bit of experience to choose the frequency correctly and I’d like the freedom to fiddle.
Regarding AMPs, I realized that I can swipe some decent AC-DC power supplies from discarded electronics where I work, which would allow me to use cheap $40 amps like this: 2x100W @ 4 Ohm TK2050 Class-D Audio Amplifier Board Only 320-334.
I think I want to do that (build the sub) later though. First I would like to fill out the low-mid end which the bookshelf speakers have a little trouble with. I like the idea of two bass bottoms each with one woofer per, maybe running 100 – 3000 Hz, give or take. I can then add the sub to fill out below 100 Hz, and cross the bookshelf speakers to 3000 -20,000.
I’ll keep the Sony for use as an amp. The preamp you linked sure looks nice but is way out of my budget (which is somewhat flexible, but I have to stay under the wife’s radar – that is why a gradual approach is preferred). I would still like to use the $60 miniDIGI miniDIGI | MiniDSP to$80 miniDSP MiniDSP kit | MiniDSP. This will give me 4 crossed outputs, which, however, is not quite enough. I need 2 for the bookshelves, 2 for the bass bottoms, and one for the sub. I guess I could wire the two bass bottoms as mono, or I could get a sub (or amp) with built in crossover (I’d still have to get a signal to it somehow though).
I don’t want to use passive crossovers: they seem to require a bit of experience to choose the frequency correctly and I’d like the freedom to fiddle.
Regarding AMPs, I realized that I can swipe some decent AC-DC power supplies from discarded electronics where I work, which would allow me to use cheap $40 amps like this: 2x100W @ 4 Ohm TK2050 Class-D Audio Amplifier Board Only 320-334.
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Hi,
Your bandying about ideas that make no sense, numbers especially.
If you go for DSP use that to EQ L+R to flat for you above 100Hz. Add
two bottom subs driven by mono below 100Hz and a centre channel.
That is 4 channels of DSP. Here is a good centre speaker design, ZA5.3C :
Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
rgds, sreten.
Your bandying about ideas that make no sense, numbers especially.
If you go for DSP use that to EQ L+R to flat for you above 100Hz. Add
two bottom subs driven by mono below 100Hz and a centre channel.
That is 4 channels of DSP. Here is a good centre speaker design, ZA5.3C :
Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
rgds, sreten.
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Of course my bandying about of ideas makes no numerical sense; I'm CrazyPete! I'm afraid that if you want quantitative lucidity you will have to look to my cousin, SensibleJoe.
I do like the center channel design. Regarding the two subwoofers: you are saying that for the same budget, it is better to have 2 subs of half the cost rather than one expensive one?
I do like the center channel design. Regarding the two subwoofers: you are saying that for the same budget, it is better to have 2 subs of half the cost rather than one expensive one?
Hi,
Yes. Two subs co-located with good L+R speaker positions
as bottoms will be better than one stuck in a corner. One
sub has the 4 ohm plate amplifier, both have 8 ohm drivers.
rgds, sreten.
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