About speaker design - a kind question - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th October 2013, 07:48 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stavanger (NORWAY)
Default About speaker design - a kind question

Hello !
I wonder if it is possible to design, build and optimize a speaker working only on one unit.
I mean, instead of working on a LR pair just work with mono signals (test signals and music tracks of course) on a single speaker.
Then when the result is convincing just make a copy of it and you get a stereo pair
The more that i think about it the more I feel the rightness of the approach.
If a speaker is good with a mono signal a pair with a stereo signal will be very good
What is stereo if not two monos ?
Anyway if you say that is a silly idea i trust you completely.

Then just one other question
The TS parameters can be measured ?
Thanks and kind regards,
gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 26th October 2013 at 09:38 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2013, 09:49 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
dragonweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hungary
No, not silly question at all.... Actually I design all of my speakers in "mono", and when I am satisfied with the result, I just "copy" it for a pair. The only problem might be to find music material that is not "too" stereo, so both channels sound close to each other, otherwise some instruments might sound too much attenuated, because they are recorded on the other channel. For your second question, here is a little calculator for measuring T-S parameters. What you need is an accurate sinevawe generator with adjustable output, an AC RMS multimeter, and a 10 ohm resistor for calibration. If you need further info how to use it, send me a PM. Well... as it turned out .exe files cannot be uploaded, so if you want it, I can send it to your E-mail.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2013, 10:25 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stavanger (NORWAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonweed View Post
No, not silly question at all....
Thank you !
i am regaining trust in myself
I tell you why this idea. Yesterday i listened from a little center alone music
I was surprised by the quality
I am pretty sure that two of those center would make a nice stereo pair indeed.

Quote:
Actually I design all of my speakers in "mono", and when I am satisfied with the result, I just "copy" it for a pair.
The only problem might be to find music material that is not "too" stereo, so both channels sound close to each other, otherwise some instruments might sound too much attenuated, because they are recorded on the other channel.
Thanks again. I am going to try for curiosity to get mono from stereo recordings that i have and like so much and in this way to create a library of mono music to use for some experiments with just one speaker.
I believe in the rightness of this approach.
As i believe that a symmetric speaker would be better
Symmetry is a quality of beauty ... i mean no L and R speakers.


Quote:
For your second question, here is a little calculator for measuring T-S parameters. What you need is an accurate sinevawe generator with adjustable output, an AC RMS multimeter, and a 10 ohm resistor for calibration. If you need further info how to use it, send me a PM. Well... as it turned out .exe files cannot be uploaded, so if you want it, I can send it to your E-mail.
Your reply answers completely my need. TS parameters can be measured.
For now it is a little complicated for me ... but i am studying.
Thank you very much again
legkedvesebb Üdvözlettel

gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 26th October 2013 at 10:28 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2013, 06:45 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
LineSource's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SiliconValley
"How do you get to perform at symphony hall?" Practice...Practice...Practice
"How do you build great speakers?" Simulate...Simulate...Simulate
"How do you confirm a great speaker design?" Measure...Measure...Measure
"How do you finalize a great speaker design?" Get experts to Listen...Listen...Listen

Some practical considerations.

1) Great stereo speakers require more extensive controlled directivity design considerations, as well as more room placement considerations for imaging, than a mono speaker. A great mono speaker design may not be a great stereo speaker.

2) It is not unusual for a speaker manufacturing process to drift, or even change, over time. The best chance of getting closely matched speaker pairs is to purchase them at the same time and add a note to your purchase order like "I would appreciate any small effort you can make to select speakers pairs with similar date codes or serial numbers."

3) Setting up the construction machines(saws, CNC, drills, etc..) takes brain-power, trial-and-error, and jigs. It is best to fabricate parts for two speakers at the same time.

4) Take advantage of well reviewed designs from generous experts. ADOPT....or....ADAPT to your goals.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2013, 06:56 PM   #5
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Designing in mono will not tell you anything about how well the speaker creates animage/soundstage. So even after getting the other bits right in mono, you may still not be done.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2013, 08:20 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
Many exceptional professional designers design via crossover simulation programs and in box driver testing. A single unit verifies the adequacy of the crossover network and for tuning to voice the speaker. They may not even build/test a pair of speakers.

A stereo pair does little to aid the designer in design verification. The designer is more interested in meeting his goals for frequency/phase responses plus off axis performance vs. imaging. Once he is satisfied, two identical units will have the imaging and soundstage.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2013, 02:10 AM   #7
DavidL is offline DavidL  United States
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
I agree, if you design one speaker and duplicate for the second then why shouldn't they work well together?
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2013, 07:20 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
dragonweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hungary
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Designing in mono will not tell you anything about how well the speaker creates animage/soundstage. So even after getting the other bits right in mono, you may still not be done.

dave
If your speaker does not create a credible image/soundstage in mono (1pc.), it will NEVER do it in stereo. When my friends hear my "mono" designs in the process, they usually comment on the depth(!) of the soundstage it creates, and none of them is a newbie in the field.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2013, 08:35 AM   #9
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
diyAudio Member
 
Juhazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Jyväskylä
Excuse me, but I don't really get this at all!

A loudspeaker is a loudspeaker. All speakers are designed and measured as single units. If the layout is asymmetrical they are usually manufactured as symmetrical LR pairs.

But, if one wants to use a speaker strictly monophonic, then wide and constant radiation pattern must be superior. If well designed it will use the room as advantage in creating balanced power/room response and reflections.

If one wants to use speakers as stereo pais or in a multichannel system, narrow radiation pattern is preferred at least for front channels. Narrow pattern makes stereo imaging better because if reduces reflections (ratio between direct and radiated sound energy and delay of reflections are important parameters), simplistically said.

Naturally we have many opinions about the suitability and betterness of different systm approaches. Many listening tests and modern acoustic analysis/simulation support the general description I said above. Read Geddes, Olive, Toole et. al.

Before the era of stereophonics hifi speakers usually had several transducers pointing at different directions, also upwards. Often they were placed right next to the wall. They were called cabinet radios or systems. Most of them were integrated with radio and a record player.

History - About - Wharfedale Hi-Fi
Sound Systems: Mono vs. Stereo
hifimuseum.de - Sie sind im Bereich : Hifi Historie und Geschichte
CarlssonPlanet.com • History of the Carlsson loudpeakers
__________________
AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 27th October 2013 at 08:44 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th October 2013, 08:50 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stavanger (NORWAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Griffin View Post
Many exceptional professional designers design via crossover simulation programs and in box driver testing.
A single unit verifies the adequacy of the crossover network and for tuning to voice the speaker.
They may not even build/test a pair of speakers.
A stereo pair does little to aid the designer in design verification.
The designer is more interested in meeting his goals for frequency/phase responses plus off axis performance vs. imaging. Once he is satisfied, two identical units will have the imaging and soundstage
This is extremely interesting. Thank you for the information.
I understand that no driver is perfectly equal to another ... but it is always the case, we have tolerances.
The better the manufacturing the smaller the deviations.
Thanks a lot
Kind regards,
gino
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Speaker design question bighorn Full Range 8 21st November 2012 07:08 PM
question about speaker box design jaygeorge1979 Multi-Way 7 12th January 2006 02:33 AM
A couple question regarding speaker design audioaction Multi-Way 2 27th January 2004 12:14 AM
Speaker Design Question r.mcnamara Multi-Way 7 8th December 2002 11:26 PM
What kind of speaker design is this? Keith TDI Multi-Way 8 25th March 2002 03:56 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:10 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2