Hi Team. I'm new to this but please tell me the info from diyaudioandvideo.com is incorrect ?? re- 3 Way Crossover
thanks
thanks
whoa... easy fellers.... only asking a simple question. Firstly the article suggests a 3rd order at 3000 Hz and a 1st order at 800 Hz but then follows with a description of a 3rd order at 800 Hz and 1st order at 3000 Hz ? I'm struggling to decipher the complete circuit diagram. I read it that the 1st order has been applied to the Mid/Tweet and the 3rd order to the Woof/Mid drivers when it should be the other way round ?? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Many thanks for your help.
p.s. may I suggest stay off the coffee ?
Many thanks for your help.
p.s. may I suggest stay off the coffee ?
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That's the problem of using and reading, and abusing things when you are trying to grasp basics...
The article mentions using a 3. order for the tweeter and a basic first order for the woofer.
Then when you see 800Hz crosover should be between Mid and Woofer and probably a first order, and between Mid and Tweeter a 3. order, but who cares... 3K, 800Hz 1. order and 3. order; it could be also a 1. order for the woofer and a 3. order for the Compression driver horn tweeter, or 2. order for the midwoofer..., or...
It's just a test to your knowledge. The most important is that you understand after all.
The article mentions using a 3. order for the tweeter and a basic first order for the woofer.
Then when you see 800Hz crosover should be between Mid and Woofer and probably a first order, and between Mid and Tweeter a 3. order, but who cares... 3K, 800Hz 1. order and 3. order; it could be also a 1. order for the woofer and a 3. order for the Compression driver horn tweeter, or 2. order for the midwoofer..., or...
It's just a test to your knowledge. The most important is that you understand after all.
As a teaching tool, this is rather poorly done.
The 1st diagram shows a 3rd order High Pass(HP) on the tweeter and 3rd order Low Pass(LP) on the mid, supposedly at 3000Hz. The 2nd diagram is labelled as the tweeter and woofer again but is actually meant to show a 1st order HP on the mid (the tweeter in the diagram) and a 1st order LP on the woofer, supposedly at 800Hz. I say "supposedly" because I assume that the calculators use an 8ohm impedance value for each driver to derive the component values which is completely incorrect (8ohm are these drivers' nominal values whereas in reality, their impedances vary with frequency anywhere from perhaps 6ohm to about 32ohm) and will therefore not result in the desired xo slopes.
Note also that the labels (C1 and L1) are used twice for different components. Not very helpful. And then in the final diagram there are no parts labelled at all so that just compounds the confusion when every single xo group is incorrectly located. That's right, the final diagram hasn't got a single xo in the right place!! No wonder you were getting confused.
The 1st order HP on the tweeter should be on the mid. The 3rd order HP on the mid should be on the tweeter. The 1st order LP on the mid should be on the woofer and the 3rd order LP on the woofer should be on the mid.
The L-pads and the notch filter on the tweeter and woofer are in the right places, except for the fact that you should probably never use an L-pad (or more specifically, a series resistor) on a woofer. That is a horrible teaching example. That design approach is completely wrong. The correct method is to start by taking Baffle Step Loss into account for the woofer (usually from 4 to 6dB) so in fact its sensitivity will in reality be about 83 to 85dB (89dB - 4 to 6dB) and in consequence the tweeter and mid both need to be padded down more than shown and the woofer requires no padding at all. That means all the R values in the example will be incorrect as well.
I could go on but suffice it to say that the success of using these types of xo calculators is analogous to hitting a bull's eye while throwing blindfolded. For a higher probability of getting it right, start reading all you can from this - The Speaker Building Bible. You want to get to the stage where you can use a piece of freeware like PCD, Passive Crossover Designer.
The 1st diagram shows a 3rd order High Pass(HP) on the tweeter and 3rd order Low Pass(LP) on the mid, supposedly at 3000Hz. The 2nd diagram is labelled as the tweeter and woofer again but is actually meant to show a 1st order HP on the mid (the tweeter in the diagram) and a 1st order LP on the woofer, supposedly at 800Hz. I say "supposedly" because I assume that the calculators use an 8ohm impedance value for each driver to derive the component values which is completely incorrect (8ohm are these drivers' nominal values whereas in reality, their impedances vary with frequency anywhere from perhaps 6ohm to about 32ohm) and will therefore not result in the desired xo slopes.
Note also that the labels (C1 and L1) are used twice for different components. Not very helpful. And then in the final diagram there are no parts labelled at all so that just compounds the confusion when every single xo group is incorrectly located. That's right, the final diagram hasn't got a single xo in the right place!!
No wonder you were getting confused.The 1st order HP on the tweeter should be on the mid. The 3rd order HP on the mid should be on the tweeter. The 1st order LP on the mid should be on the woofer and the 3rd order LP on the woofer should be on the mid.
The L-pads and the notch filter on the tweeter and woofer are in the right places, except for the fact that you should probably never use an L-pad (or more specifically, a series resistor) on a woofer. That is a horrible teaching example. That design approach is completely wrong. The correct method is to start by taking Baffle Step Loss into account for the woofer (usually from 4 to 6dB) so in fact its sensitivity will in reality be about 83 to 85dB (89dB - 4 to 6dB) and in consequence the tweeter and mid both need to be padded down more than shown and the woofer requires no padding at all. That means all the R values in the example will be incorrect as well.
I could go on but suffice it to say that the success of using these types of xo calculators is analogous to hitting a bull's eye while throwing blindfolded. For a higher probability of getting it right, start reading all you can from this - The Speaker Building Bible. You want to get to the stage where you can use a piece of freeware like PCD, Passive Crossover Designer.
Hi Team. I'm new to this but please tell me the info from diyaudioandvideo.com is incorrect ?? re- 3 Way Crossover
thanks
Although the article contains some interesting rarely mentioned hints it is misleading and incorrect.
It is extremely uncommon to put an L-pad on a bass driver.
Midranges often can be crossed over at their resonance frequency or an octave above it.
The diagrams and circuits are wrong and do not correspond to the wording of the article.
The midrange bandpass gain is not mentioned although the same site contains 3-way crossover calculator that calculates it and it is a known phenomenon. So the L-pad selection and strategy is wrong as the article takes the wrong midrange sensitivity.
A three way has several advantages, one being more power handling, another better extension and yet another the possibility to avoid baffle step issues through the crossover design.
If I was going to bother writing an article about 3-way crossovers, it would be half shorter and it would explain that crossover points can be chosen depending on front baffle width.
Best regards!
Gentlemen. You were all new to audio and crossover design at some point. Please be a little more tolerant.
Pano:
One thing to have questions, quite another to waste people's time by expecting people to read and analyze a full article for you because you can't be bothered to ask what is concerning you. Labeling it misinformation's pretty accusatory too, obviously the authors of the site were trying to be helpful to diyers.
One thing to have questions, quite another to waste people's time by expecting people to read and analyze a full article for you because you can't be bothered to ask what is concerning you. Labeling it misinformation's pretty accusatory too, obviously the authors of the site were trying to be helpful to diyers.
Yeah... and give the space for real members projects.
Sometimes the "vocabulary" used by some members (newbies or not) is really annoying on purpose. Like who cares if "ALL" the information in one website was "WRONG", why is that everybody is reading it?!
If incorrect, then is NOT EVERYTHING is it?! Explain was done already before in this thread anyway, why repeating it yourself...
If something is wrong, obviously something is, then adress the mistake to the right webmaster and move on.
Why thank you for your response Mr jReave. I thought so, with my limited electronics experience but using some common sense, I came to the same conclusion. When searching for 3 way crossover help, the page "http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Tutorial/Crossover/ " comes up as the top search. This suggests that maybe, people are repeatedly being given the incorrect information regarding 3 way crossovers. Sorry to upset captain america there but pay attention to the details!!! I'll follow Mr jReave's advice
I'll follow Mr jReave's advice Hi,
It is just simply wrong in many respects, baffle step is missing.
FRD Consortium tools guide
Designing Crossovers with Software Only
rgds, sreten.
It is just simply wrong in many respects, baffle step is missing.
FRD Consortium tools guide
Designing Crossovers with Software Only
rgds, sreten.
Yeah... and give the space for real members projects.
Sometimes the "vocabulary" used by some members (newbies or not) is really annoying on purpose. Like who cares if "ALL" the information in one website was "WRONG", why is that everybody is reading it?!
If incorrect, then is NOT EVERYTHING is it?! Explain was done already before in this thread anyway, why repeating it yourself...
If something is wrong, obviously something is, then adress the mistake to the right webmaster and move on.
Wow, cut down on the coffee
so anyone new isn't welcome because they aren't posting a project? I think you need to back off.Fradbut was asking opinions if the info was wrong since he wasn't sure himself, so what's wrong with that? No wait...don't answer, I think you got your opinion already. He came here to learn not be lectured.
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Agreed, some posters/members not so kind also...Wow, cut down on the coffee
Fradbut was asking opinions if the info was wrong since he wasn't sure himself, so what's wrong with that? No wait...don't answer, I think you got your opinion already. He came here to learn not be lectured.
You know and might agree with me that there's a lot of small talk, not saying is the case, you can look at my first post of this thread. So no one else to criticize me much less you (with coffee or without). I addressed the question that was posted first.
In my second post I addressed the abusing by some members. It's not only a few times this happens and is needless to say but some more members get upset by it, in this thread also and they where confused with such a broad and misguiding statement of a site that everybody go's check. It's right that there are some MISTAKES, I SAID THAT.
I feel confident that the OP looked at the issue and addressed that very well.
I usually address posters questions. Is just a reminder.
As an example I can mention the "white van speakers" and the way that some people believe that they have good speakers and come here for an upgrade. It's only a matter of fair and balanced judgment...
I feel sorry for you, you have no reason to get upset it's how things are.
You stay with your cup of tea...
#"Sticks his oar in the water and stirs vigorously"#
To make matters worse there is simply so many opinions on where to put the XOs in the first place that you won't get a real consensus here and not all of us pay attention to baffle step, and when I do concern myself with baffle step I usually counter it by adding extra bass drivers. How-ever if you have questions relating too specific combinations of drivers and crossover points most folk here are very willing and happy to help
I'd never seen that site before and I wouldn't go back to it.
Do you actually have a particular project in mind? Or are you just after simple beginners advice?
To make matters worse there is simply so many opinions on where to put the XOs in the first place that you won't get a real consensus here and not all of us pay attention to baffle step, and when I do concern myself with baffle step I usually counter it by adding extra bass drivers. How-ever if you have questions relating too specific combinations of drivers and crossover points most folk here are very willing and happy to help
I'd never seen that site before and I wouldn't go back to it.
Do you actually have a particular project in mind? Or are you just after simple beginners advice?
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