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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 13th July 2017, 01:00 AM   #241
BP1Fanatic is offline BP1Fanatic  United States
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Lol!
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Old 16th July 2017, 07:48 PM   #242
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Danley sh50 vs Monster Massive - YouTube

Here's a video comparing the two speakers.
I'm surprised how different they sound on Youtube.
Here in the room the difference is fairly subtle.
Must be psychoacoustics; my brain is basically filtering out the boominess you hear in this youtube video.
Here's a video of the ELAC UB5:

Z Review - ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 SOUND DEMO - YouTube

If you're interested in comparing the Danley SH50 to a coaxial, this video is a good way to to do it.

Here's some things that I notice:

In the recording that I did of the Danley SH50, you can really hear how the big waveguide of the Danley speaker goes a long way to getting the room out of the picture. When listening to the Danley, you hear very little boominess or echo, because the waveguide is limiting the radiation to a fifty degree beam.

With the ELAC speaker, you hear that the room is contributing a lot more to the sound. You can hear an 'echo' around the recording.

Here's the really tricky part:

To my ears, the Danley is more "hi-fi." Because the room is contributing so little to the sound, small changes to the mix are readily apparent.

BUT...

The early echos from the ELAC are euphonic; to my ears it reminds me of the effect of adding reverb to a vocalist. Sure, it's distortion, but it's euphonic distortion.

This is a subject that's become really fascinating to me for the past five years or so. I can fairly easily make a Synergy Horn that's almost an "x-ray" on a recording, but sometimes you WANT something that's not so-revealing. (Heresy, I know.)

It's one of the things that keeps me coming back to waveguides with a wider coverage angle, basically 'lighting up' the room, but doing it in such a way that the early reflections are a faithful recreation of the incident sound.

If you go and listen to the video I posted from 2014 (the first video in this post, not the second) you can hear some 'harshness' in the treble. I believe that's caused by the midrange taps of the Synergy horn. The ELAC doesn't exhibit it at all, my own 'Monster Massive' doesn't exhibit it to the same degree as the SH50 (imho.)

Again, this is a series of tradeoffs. To get that "xray" quality of the SH50 you need a narrow coverage angle, and that narrow coverage angle means that the effect of the midrange taps is more apparent.


The thing that all three of these speakers do really well is they're ARTICULATE. I think this aspect of a speaker is under-appreciated. Whether you're listening to a SACD of Cowboy Junkies, or an AM radio broadcast from the 80s, intelligibility improves both listening experiences. You can hear this in the videos above, note how articulate all three speakers are, when reproducing vocals. And intelligibility is something that often suffers in "conventional" hifi loudspeakers. This is because "conventional" hifi speakers are frequently three or ever four-way designs. And due to the number of drivers, and the fact that they're radiating from disparate points in space, intelligibility suffers. This is one of the reasons that a cheap BOSE wave radio can do some things correctly that $20K megaspeakers can't. Intelligibility is difficult to achieve without resorting to a full-range or coaxial loudspeaker.

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 16th July 2017 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 16th July 2017, 08:07 PM   #243
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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ISP HDL 3112 Line Array Speaker Demo - YouTube

Audiocenter K-LA210DSP Line array Demo at Cebu, Philippines 2016 - YouTube

For the flip side of the coin, here are three line array demos. Note how the vocals are difficult to understand. This is because the wavefront is arriving from multiple points; the wavefronts are not aligned.

Genesis 1 Big speaker@Hong Kong by lee388 - YouTube

This video is particularly interesting. Try listening to this video back-to-back with the Danley speaker. And note I'm not using any fancy gear to do my recording. I used my phone. The echo and the lack of intelligibility in the line array isn't due to the cabinet, or the drivers. It's just a fundamental flaw of systems that can't produce a coherent wavefront. (spoiler alert : only a full range or a coax can truly produce a coherent wavefront.)

LeCleach Synergy Horn - YouTube

Now compare those line arrays to one of my half-baked projects. I knocked this one out in about twelve hours and it's nowhere near "complete" but you can hear in the video that it crushes the line arrays when it comes to articulation.

TAD Synergy Horns playing Lucy Rose (again) - YouTube

Here's Legis' Synergy Horn. In the video, you can hear the same articulation. Note how much clearer the vocals are, when compared to a conventional loudspeaker.
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Old 16th July 2017, 08:16 PM   #244
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Last video, I promise!

Z Review - JBL Studio 530 Sound Demo - YouTube

Here's a video of a JBL speaker that has a horn loaded tweeter and a conventional midrange. With female voices, you can hear that it gets (close) to that Synergy magic. Basically the horn is controlling the directivity above 2000Hz, so you get good intelligibility. This is because the room isn't adding it's own 'signature' to the sound above 2000Hz. But in the video, with male vocals, you can hear that the intelligibility isn't as good as the Synergy Horns. Even when a Synergy Horn has a very small waveguide, like my Monster Massive speaker, you still get good intelligibility. This is because the midrange and the tweeter are so tightly packed, they're basically functioning like a single cohesive unit.

It would be interesting to try something like the JBL speaker using a full range on that horn. Something like XRK971 did with the SB Acoustics 2.5" driver.
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Old 17th July 2017, 04:39 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
It's one of the things that keeps me coming back to waveguides with a wider coverage angle, basically 'lighting up' the room, but doing it in such a way that the early reflections are a faithful recreation of the incident sound.
Have you heard the JBL LSR705i yet?
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Old 17th July 2017, 07:36 AM   #246
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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I don't rely on loudspeaker demo videos at all. Microphone systems are never equal, neither rooms.


I have heard Legis's system live and recordings don't come even close to live performance! But his system sounds too close to headphone-listening, I think, the sound comes too much on my face.
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