Advice on Driver Choices for 3-way, 4 woofer design (listed in thread) - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th October 2013, 10:12 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default Advice on Driver Choices for 3-way, 4 woofer design (listed in thread)

I am still new to DIY audio and am still learning everything. It's a steep learning curve and it will take a long longer to absorb the knowledge.

That said, with some help from an old thread I wanted to design a speaker that could compete with the Paradigm S8's. jReave spent a large amount of time helping me, thanks!

My plan of attack is the following:
Tweeter QTY 1- ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6600 AirCirc

Mid QTY 1 -Scanspeak 15M/4531K Revelator 5.5" Midrange

Woofers QTY 4 - Exodus Anarchy
Woofers would be wired in a 2-parallel-series configuration for 8ohm.


I realize these are fairly high end drivers, especially for my first DIY, however my goal was to find something that competes and performs close to the S8's. I realize this is ambitious for a first build but I like the buy once cry once style.

Power:
Rotel RMB-1091 Monoblocks (have them already)
Rated 500watt RMS 8ohm, measured 600+
Rated 1kwatt RMS 4ohm, measured 1200+

What are your thoughts on the driver selection?

I need to continue reading and learning for enclosure design, baffle design, and crossover design. I know I can learn it, it will just take time. Thanks for the patients and help!
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2013, 10:26 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Western Sydney
If you need baffle step compensation, those woofers aren't efficient enough
__________________
Impedance varies with frequency, use impedance plots of your drivers and make crossover calculations using the actual impedance of the driver at the crossover frequency
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2013, 10:55 PM   #3
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

My advice would be walk before you can run.

Given that PM's advice is just simply wrong. 4 woofers
can be too efficient, but cannot be not efficient enough.

However your ambition way exceeds your knowledge,
and you won't learn much trying to go for broke 1st.

I'd say build these : Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5
with an emphasis on cabinet issues to start off with.
Like most good designs the cabinets can be improved.

And FWIW given the design the cabinet issues are not that
complicated as an issue to optimise for the design particulars,
as you only really have to look at the bottom end issues.

I'll guarantee if you do you will end up with a very different
perspective on what you now seem to think is a good idea.

May not be your ideal speakers but they will be very good.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow

Last edited by sreten; 15th October 2013 at 11:15 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2013, 12:10 AM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Inductor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cascais
What's that a 3-way with a 4 woofer design ??? Could be isobaric?!
Is it still for sale? Can you buy it, or you go to second hand market?!
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2013, 08:26 AM   #5
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Melbourne
Do you intend using an active or passive crossover?

(Hint; Passive is full of massive and difficult issues, whereas active can solve or ameliorate many or most of these problems more than satisfactorily, plus leave room for later tuning.)


Abs
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2013, 11:05 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: -
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstang1988 View Post
What are your thoughts on the driver selection?
If the money is a significant sum for you then it looks rather unwise to me. Expensive drivers don't make much difference compared to getting the basics right. Having a crack at a complex DIY project is fine but you must expect to get a few things wrong which you will find when listening and measuring. I would suggest substituting drivers from the standard range of leading manufacturers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2013, 03:38 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
1) If you are doing this as a learning experience, then an active digital crossover using something like MiniDSP or perhaps a pro amp with DSP like some of the Behringer iNukes is definitely the way to go.

You can change things in real time.

You don't have to solder or desolder circuit elements in order to modify or tweek things.

There is software that can even determine the DSP set up from measured responses or that can translate a DSP config into a passive crossover. Should you decide to go that way eventually.

2) Invest in measuring tools. Despite what the "cables have magical properties" crowd think, your ear is a very poor measuring tool and is unreliable. A good calibrated USB mike and software like REW can tell you lots of useful information and is very helpful for tracking down any subtle quirks that may be due to errors or problems that are not obvious.

RE: Driver selection

A well designed speaker with average drivers, which takes advantage of the characteristics of drivers and limits their flaws, will beat the stuffings out of a poorly designed speaker with really expensive components. There is a nigh infinite number of ways you can screw up a speaker or build in flaws that are not obvious and for which "common sense" is an inadequate guide.

Speaker design is a skill like any other. You don't paint the Mona Lisa or the Last Supper as your first painting. You do a paint by numbers and figure out if you are any good at it at all.

Last edited by Generic George; 16th October 2013 at 03:46 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2013, 04:43 PM   #8
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Hey mstang1988,

I wondered what ever became of your project. Nice to see that you are still plugging away at it.

For your specific goals, I still think those drivers are good choices. I would be interested in what other people thought too but you really need to post baffle dimensions, volume constraints and F3 goals to get any serious recommendations. Fitting 4 woofers that will go low enough into that size cabinet and maintain high sound quality is a challenge and the Anarchy's fit the bill nicely. If I recall correctly, the mid was chosen to match sensitivity. There are perhaps some other tweeters that may be just about as good but perhaps for a little less money. The new Satori comes to mind as 1 example. (The Madisound Speaker Store)

If you haven't figured it out yet, you need to go to the DIY Sound Group, Denovo Audio Anarchy woofer DIY Sound Group, in order to get the Anarchy's now. The original company has stopped selling them. See this thread too for more info - Over at AVS forum.....

Here's also an excellent thread on curved cabinet construction if you need some help in that area - coincidentally also using the Anarchy driver - Anarchy/Dayton TM build

Lastly, I would double my chances of success by also posting at the Parts Express Tech Talk Forum as well. Can't hurt. (Tech Talk Forum) Start at least by reading The Speaker Building Bible thread.

Whether or not you are in over your head I think is sort of up to you. I've found there are people that would be true for and others for which it doesn't apply. Certainly it would be easier if you have something else under your belt first but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. But it will be a very serious challenge. I hope you are up for it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2013, 08:14 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Overkill Audio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Default Active crossover is heart of a DIY start up.

I agree with GG,

The best investment you can make in DIY speaker building is to buy a good DSP active crossover. This will form the heart of any speaker system and maximise your ability to learn about crossover points / slopes / integrating a sub and enabling drivers to operate in their optimum frequency bands.
All very important stuff.
I would not be shy about buying good quality drivers, SS are a good bet.
I personally don't like small ( or even large) woofers with huge XMax....If a cone if having to travel plus / minus 10mm or more in order to produce a desired SPL my advice is to buy bigger woofers ( always go Pro IMO) and don't drive them as hard.
Golden rule in my book....As soon as your cones are pumping plus minus more than about 6mm for bass, 2mm for midrange double your Sd ( Surface area) and you will automatically half your driver excursion.
This will sound way better!
D.
__________________
" This is not the end, not even the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning "
Sir Winston Churchill 1943
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2013, 04:14 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jReave View Post
Hey mstang1988,

I wondered what ever became of your project. Nice to see that you are still plugging away at it.

For your specific goals, I still think those drivers are good choices. I would be interested in what other people thought too but you really need to post baffle dimensions, volume constraints and F3 goals to get any serious recommendations. Fitting 4 woofers that will go low enough into that size cabinet and maintain high sound quality is a challenge and the Anarchy's fit the bill nicely. If I recall correctly, the mid was chosen to match sensitivity. There are perhaps some other tweeters that may be just about as good but perhaps for a little less money. The new Satori comes to mind as 1 example. (The Madisound Speaker Store)

If you haven't figured it out yet, you need to go to the DIY Sound Group, Denovo Audio Anarchy woofer DIY Sound Group, in order to get the Anarchy's now. The original company has stopped selling them. See this thread too for more info - Over at AVS forum.....

Here's also an excellent thread on curved cabinet construction if you need some help in that area - coincidentally also using the Anarchy driver - Anarchy/Dayton TM build

Lastly, I would double my chances of success by also posting at the Parts Express Tech Talk Forum as well. Can't hurt. (Tech Talk Forum) Start at least by reading The Speaker Building Bible thread.

Whether or not you are in over your head I think is sort of up to you. I've found there are people that would be true for and others for which it doesn't apply. Certainly it would be easier if you have something else under your belt first but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. But it will be a very serious challenge. I hope you are up for it.
Yup, thank's for the help. I did preorder the Anarchy which renewed my interest in this build. I ordered 12 (2 for center, 1 for each surround, 4 for each main). I couldn't resist the price :-)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Too many DIY choices, advice appreciated. Wardww Digital Line Level 2 22nd May 2013 06:09 PM
Cross Over design and Woofer choices for FAST tuxedocivic Full Range 20 15th January 2013 08:39 PM
OB woofer choices in Oz lazenna Multi-Way 6 3rd October 2007 12:23 PM
Advice on a couple of different driver choices please :). quickshift Multi-Way 1 11th August 2005 07:21 PM
Amp choices-- advice Altaic Solid State 11 13th May 2004 06:33 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:31 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2