Advice on Driver Choices for 3-way, 4 woofer design (listed in thread) - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 23rd October 2013, 01:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstang1988 View Post
I realize these are fairly high end drivers, especially for my first DIY, however my goal was to find something that competes and performs close to the S8's. I realize this is ambitious for a first build but I like the buy once cry once style.
I guess you are going to cry to build a crossover for that midrange (project) unless you already have it...
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Old 23rd October 2013, 05:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
I guess you are going to cry to build a crossover for that midrange (project) unless you already have it...
Yup, pretty much will be crying throughout the entire project.
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Old 23rd October 2013, 06:03 PM   #13
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstang1988 View Post
I did preorder the Anarchy which renewed my interest in this build. I ordered 12 (2 for center, 1 for each surround, 4 for each main). I couldn't resist the price :-)
Cool. Every time I look at those, I want to buy some even though I really don't need any.

Once they arrive, you're probably going to be itching to get going on your speaker but I would suggest not buying anything more until you've done a complete simulation and know that your chosen drivers will actually work well together.

Start with a box program to help you understand sealed vs ported and the relationships between Vb, Qtc, Fb, F3, step response, power, xmax, port velocity, effects of stuffing, etc, etc:

UniBox - Unified Box Model for Loudspeaker Design
LinearTeam
Loudspeaker Design Software

I have a preference for Unibox. Other people may prefer one of the others.

Then start drawing up some rough cabinet plans to see how volumes are going to work out and to figure out driver placements on the baffle. I find SketchUp to be pretty helpful in this regard, especially for curved cabinets as it has a built-in area calculator from which it is a simple matter to figure out box volumes (maybe it has a volume calculator too but I'm not sure about that).

Now that you know cabinet dimensions and driver placement, you can simulate the baffle diffraction effects:

Loudspeaker Design Software
Tolvan Data

That should keep you busy for a while.

After that, you'll need a frequency response combiner program and then a xo design program like PCD.

Try here - Tips, Volume 2- The setup!! - Blogs - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum - for a step-by-step walk through on how to do the whole process.

You also have to make a couple of key decisions I think:
1) simulation only or simulation with measured responses? The simulation programs are surprisingly accurate when done properly and then fine tuned by ear, but using measurements does increase the probability of success.
2) if measured, can you get someone else to do it or will you want to buy the gear and learn to do it yourself?
3) passive or active?
4) if active, matching driver sensitivities isn't as important so there may be other mid driver choices to look at.

Remember - there are no stupid questions. Everybody has to start at the beginning.
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Old 23rd October 2013, 06:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jReave View Post
Cool. Every time I look at those, I want to buy some even though I really don't need any.

Once they arrive, you're probably going to be itching to get going on your speaker but I would suggest not buying anything more until you've done a complete simulation and know that your chosen drivers will actually work well together.

Start with a box program to help you understand sealed vs ported and the relationships between Vb, Qtc, Fb, F3, step response, power, xmax, port velocity, effects of stuffing, etc, etc:

UniBox - Unified Box Model for Loudspeaker Design
LinearTeam
Loudspeaker Design Software

I have a preference for Unibox. Other people may prefer one of the others.

Then start drawing up some rough cabinet plans to see how volumes are going to work out and to figure out driver placements on the baffle. I find SketchUp to be pretty helpful in this regard, especially for curved cabinets as it has a built-in area calculator from which it is a simple matter to figure out box volumes (maybe it has a volume calculator too but I'm not sure about that).

Now that you know cabinet dimensions and driver placement, you can simulate the baffle diffraction effects:

Loudspeaker Design Software
Tolvan Data

That should keep you busy for a while.

After that, you'll need a frequency response combiner program and then a xo design program like PCD.

Try here - Tips, Volume 2- The setup!! - Blogs - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum - for a step-by-step walk through on how to do the whole process.

You also have to make a couple of key decisions I think:
1) simulation only or simulation with measured responses? The simulation programs are surprisingly accurate when done properly and then fine tuned by ear, but using measurements does increase the probability of success.
2) if measured, can you get someone else to do it or will you want to buy the gear and learn to do it yourself?
3) passive or active?
4) if active, matching driver sensitivities isn't as important so there may be other mid driver choices to look at.

Remember - there are no stupid questions. Everybody has to start at the beginning.
Thanks again for the more info, and you are right I want to design and build! The reason for posting this thread was to figure out what other drivers I really needed before ordering. This sounds sad but for some reason I really fell in love with the anarchy drivers and was willing to change the mids and highs if needed to work with these.

I already grabbed a few enclosure program and have been playing with that. I'm pretty knowledgeable with sketchup as well so that should be trivial to draw it up.

I'm going to try and convince somebody to help me measure the speakers. A guy from work has the equipment but I need to see if he has the time. If not I'll see if I can find somebody else in the Austin area to help with measurements. If not I don't know that I want to buy more equipment (I just don't want to store it).
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Old 24th October 2013, 12:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jReave View Post
Cool. Every time I look at those, I want to buy some even though I really don't need any.

Once they arrive, you're probably going to be itching to get going on your speaker but I would suggest not buying anything more until you've done a complete simulation and know that your chosen drivers will actually work well together.
Best advice to OP. Hope it takes advantage of.
The drivers (he bought) are a good handicap.
mstang1988,
They are always a disadvantage when you are buying first woofers or subs you don't know how they get in the picture.
They are also good midwoofers, but one of them (as a mid) is no match for the 91/W/m of the (4x) LF frequencies drivers when connected series/parallel, as a reference to you.
I'm sure they will make a good speaker, and you are also already bound for a type of drawing/project or max low frequency extension. Good part is you have four of them and can manage the type of design like a 3-Way or 3.5-Way... as one example only.
This is going to develop nicely in your favor if you concentrate in the project, not letting the thread die and paying close attention to the drivers, like you already did with a good, accurate and clever statement of your first post. Best.
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Old 24th October 2013, 06:06 PM   #16
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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I should have mentioned - make sure you get the 8 ohm Anarchy's and not the new 4 ohm version they are also making available. That is if you want to maintain the same sensitivity for passive xo matching to the sensitivity of your mid. The 4 ohm is likely to be more sensitive although I'm just guessing on that, I haven't seen the specs.
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Old 24th October 2013, 06:48 PM   #17
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
They are also good midwoofers, but one of them (as a mid) is no match for the 91/W/m of the (4x) LF frequencies drivers when connected series/parallel, as a reference to you.
Inductor, you should have a look at the speaker that the OP is trying to imitate - Paradigm | Signature Collection | Signature S8 | Overview. It creates some very specific design requirements - narrow baffle, low volume, low F3, high SQ, etc.

The strength of the Anarchy's is that they'll go quite low in a relatively small volume for a 7" driver and do so fairly cleanly. For the mids though, there are lots of other drivers with lower distortion in the 300 to 3000Hz range. However many of them aren't sensitive enough to match 4 of the Anarchy's 90-91dB output like you mention, even after we take baffle step into account. I've suggested one of the 4 ohm Revelators. The Satori might sound better but it's right on the edge in terms of sensitivity I think. One of the new Vifa NE's might work, I've been seeing some really positive comments about some of those. No one else seems to be making any suggestions though.....
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Old 24th October 2013, 06:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jReave View Post
I should have mentioned - make sure you get the 8 ohm Anarchy's and not the new 4 ohm version they are also making available. That is if you want to maintain the same sensitivity for passive xo matching to the sensitivity of your mid. The 4 ohm is likely to be more sensitive although I'm just guessing on that, I haven't seen the specs.
That's exactly what I preordered. Thank you again for all of the help. I sent you a PM with another question related to unibox.
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Old 24th October 2013, 09:35 PM   #19
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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I couldn't seem to attach images to a pm, so here they are. These are using Zaph's measured TS parameters for the Anarchy's.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Unibox 1.JPG (442.4 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg Unibox 2.JPG (453.9 KB, 42 views)
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Old 24th October 2013, 09:42 PM   #20
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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Oh yea - there's one little mistake with the vented design. You can spot it from this page although it may be easier to see by going to the vented page by hitting the vented tab at the bottom.

You'll know you're starting to get the hang of things when you can figure out what it is.
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