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Old 2nd October 2013, 01:04 PM   #1
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Default Am I doing this right ? Dayton speaker replacement.

My data -

I have an enclosure with 8" X 8.5" X 30" internal volume (1.167 cu. ft. ). It had (semi) working bass
drivers (warped voice coils). I heard the sound of the originals but proceeded to
"finish" off the woofers with my big amp. No idea of the original specs for these
drivers.

I bought some cheap drivers for replacement - MCM Audio Select 8" Woofer with Poly Cone and Rubber Surround 70W RMS at 8ohm | 55-2971 (552971) | MCM Audio Select

The sound was "OK" , but not as deep and refined as the originals.
(Qts of .45)
Now , I'm looking at the Dayton 215-8 or the 225-8 as a better replacement.

Both of these have a Qts of .34-.36 ...
The 225 has the larger Vas of the 2 - 2.18
I used the online box calc here : Speaker Box Enclosure Designer / Calculator

It shows a volume of .78 cu. ft. for the 215-8 and a perfect 1.16 for the 225-8.. both with a 2" port at 4+ " (tuned the enclosures for 45hz).

The 215-8 is the perfect fit , physically - so , I really would prefer it. My
question is , could I use my larger volume enclosure for the 215-8 even as it
"prefers" a .7-.8 cu. ft. one ???

I'm about to buy them , so any advice is welcome.

OS
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Old 2nd October 2013, 01:35 PM   #2
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Hi OS,

The dayton 215 should fit well in the 1.17 cubic foot box tuned to 41Hz. The alignment becomes an extended bass shelf (EBS). Have a look at the 2 graphs, the one in red is the larger enclosure. Much better bass extension. Can handle a full 100W to 30Hz before X-max becomes an issue. (104dB at 30Hz).
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Old 2nd October 2013, 01:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chlorofille View Post
Hi OS,

The dayton 215 should fit well in the 1.17 cubic foot box tuned to 41Hz. The alignment becomes an extended bass shelf (EBS). Have a look at the 2 graphs, the one in red is the larger enclosure. Much better bass extension. Can handle a full 100W to 30Hz before X-max becomes an issue. (104dB at 30Hz).
On my above link , I did go lower with the 215 (40Hz) , it suggested a 5" port
(2" dia).

I did not subtract the generous internal bracing or the woofer/port Volume/foam padding from
the enclosure volume. It might be closer to 1 cu. ft. (28L).

So... the larger enclosure allows for lower tunings. COOL , 104db at 30HZ !

Have you used either of these dayton's ?

OS
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Old 2nd October 2013, 01:55 PM   #4
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

The 215-8 will be fine in the bass end. However its top
end has a large peak that may need controlling in the x/o.
the 225-8 has an even more problematic dip and peak.

a 2 way may have problems, a 3 way should be OK.

rgds, sreten.

You don't subtract foam lining for volume calculations.
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Last edited by sreten; 2nd October 2013 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 02:00 PM   #5
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I have heard a 3 way using the Reference series 8'' from a friend in Singapore. Deep and powerful in 2 cu. ft. Hopefully others can provide some info before you take the plunge. My simulation is done in BassBoxPro 6 which I find very accurate in regards to enclosure size and port tuning.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 02:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

The 215-8 will be fine in the bass end. However its top
end has a large peak that may need controlling in the x/o.
the 225-8 has an even more problematic dip and peak.

a 2 way may have problems, a 3 way should be OK.

rgds, sreten.

You don't subtract foam lining for volume calculations.
I saw that peak , and when I googled to find some builders of 215-8 systems .. they said to cross it over "low" .

I'm using the existing XO from the original enclosures , I think they are 1.5K
second order.
BTW , these are the mission 763i 's . No SPECS!

In the near future , I do want to upgrade the cheap caps and inductors.
It now has a air core HPF and a ferrite core LPF + NP electrolytic's - cheap
(economical ? ) .

OS
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Old 2nd October 2013, 02:35 PM   #7
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

You most likely will have problems using the original x/o.
The 10dB rise from 1KHz to 3KHz will be an issue.
(Unless by luck the original driver was similar.)

rgds, sreten.

These would probably work better :
Peerless SKO204 8 inch hifi bass woofers speakers | eBay
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Old 2nd October 2013, 02:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
The 215-8 is the perfect fit , physically - so , I really would prefer it. My
question is , could I use my larger volume enclosure for the 215-8 even as it
"prefers" a .7-.8 cu. ft. one ??? OS
Hi OS

The DS215-8 can be used with your current box. Simply tune it lower (see attachment).

I have the SD215A-88 DVC model which is cheaper. Voice coil must be paralleled for 4 ohms. The SD215A-88 can also be loaded in your box. I'm using it strictly for sub, crossing anywhere from 70Hz-100Hz (24dB/oct).

If you need to cross higher, I suggest the Peerless 830869. This driver can cross at 1.5kHz.

Regards
Mike
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File Type: gif DAYTON DS215-8.gif (36.9 KB, 70 views)
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Old 2nd October 2013, 06:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Chua View Post
Hi OS

The DS215-8 can be used with your current box. Simply tune it lower (see attachment).

I have the SD215A-88 DVC model which is cheaper. Voice coil must be paralleled for 4 ohms. The SD215A-88 can also be loaded in your box. I'm using it strictly for sub, crossing anywhere from 70Hz-100Hz (24dB/oct).

If you need to cross higher, I suggest the Peerless 830869. This driver can cross at 1.5kHz.

Regards
Mike
I really want to use the 215-8 (it's a perfect fit) , I have minimal woodworking tools.

Could the XO be "tweaked" to mitigate any peaks in the dayton ?

I estimated that XO (1.5K) from the scant info I could dredge up from the internet and the specs on the original tweeters (they were also blown).
I'm now using these ... MCM Audio Select 1" Soft Dome Tweeter with 103mm Round Frame | 53-1370 (531370) | MCM Audio Select
So far - good , I've hammered these with the full "wrath" of my 125W amp , crystal clear and I cannot blow them .

(BELOW) is the XO in schematic form.

I could test R1 and R2 - both are 1R @ 7W.

L1 (the woofer inductor) is a ferrite slug 12.5mm thick by 25mm long wrapped by 120 windings of 18ga enameled wire. It's outer diameter (the whole inductor) is about 22mm.

L2 (tweeter inductor).. is a plastic bobbin (air core) @ 15mm ID X 30mm OD X 12.5mm wide , it has 90+ windings of the same 18ga wire.

C1 and C2 are buried in glue ... I would most likely destroy them to determine the values.

I could of bought replacements for all the mission drivers , but they looked
kind of cheap (small magnets , no pole vents , 20mm VC's).

I need something (bass driver wise) that can take a bit of abuse. The lowly MCM tweeters definitely can.

OS
Attached Images
File Type: jpg missionXO.jpg (26.4 KB, 57 views)
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Last edited by ostripper; 2nd October 2013 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 07:46 PM   #10
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Your current arrangement with cheap tweeters and and cheap bass
units is probably are far as you can go with the original crossovers.

As soon as you start looking at expensive drivers your on a hiding
to nothing trying to get them to work as effectively as they cost.

Click the image to open in full size.

Fold pieces of ~ 1cm thick foam 3 x port diameter x port depth *
into the ports for the MCM drivers, will give you tighter deeper bass.

They look like the bottom may be closed off for sand filling.

rgds, sreten.

* Foam cleaning sponges work well, 3 for 1.
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Last edited by sreten; 2nd October 2013 at 07:54 PM.
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