Depends on what you consider big. I've seen a diy synergy using Eminence Alpha 6 for mids, but that's about as large as you can go. The desired bandwidth determines the driver size. If you're trying to meet up to a 1" cd then you're looking at crossing at about 1k. To do that the mid port needs to be close to the CD exit, so a 4” or smaller mid is ideal. A large woofer won't play that high with the port configuration to meet the CD successfully.
A 2 way with a small mid (300-1k or so) and a large direct radiator or 2 below the horn near the floor is what I do.
Of course, you could use a large format cd and get away with a larger mid but the cd dispersion will narrow much sooner.
A 2 way with a small mid (300-1k or so) and a large direct radiator or 2 below the horn near the floor is what I do.
Of course, you could use a large format cd and get away with a larger mid but the cd dispersion will narrow much sooner.
Don't tell Tom that, one of his early Unity two way horns used dual 8" with a 1" CD in a relatively compact size 
: Sound Physics Labs, Inc.
Bill's apparently stillborn DIY version: Future Projects
GM
: Sound Physics Labs, Inc.Bill's apparently stillborn DIY version: Future Projects
GM
if I understand any of how it works, then you might get into trouble
the relatively high xo point needed for a 1" CD means small pass holes for the mid, and placed close to CD exit
bigger midwoofer placed further away with bigger pass holes needs lower xo point
but I probably got it wrong(again)
btw ... additional woofer box might help to do a 2way Synergy, but then its still a 3way system
the relatively high xo point needed for a 1" CD means small pass holes for the mid, and placed close to CD exit
bigger midwoofer placed further away with bigger pass holes needs lower xo point
but I probably got it wrong(again)
btw ... additional woofer box might help to do a 2way Synergy, but then its still a 3way system
As GM noted, Sound Physics Labs sold a Unity horn two way called the SPL Runt.
The Lambda Unity horn was *almost* a two way. With an F3 of something like 250hz it played *almost* low enough to mate up with subs.
Danley sells at least one Synergy horn two-way currently; it's the one with a BMS coax at the throat of a molded plastic Synergy horn. Forget the name; SM-60M I think? There are a few variants, mostly they're three ways with a 5" coax and dual eights.
Here's a few challenges to tackle when doing a Synergy horn two way:
1) getting the center to center spacing right can be tough. In the SPL run, which uses 8" woofers, it's probably 'pushing' the envelope of how far the midranges can be from the tweeter. One 'easy' fix is to do what VTC Pro Audio did with their box. Their box uses a Paraline and DSP to line everything up. MiniDSP is about $100 and has everything you need to make this work.
2) If you opt for smaller midranges, like I do, you're going to be bandwidth limited. Personally I think this is the best and easiest option. Because Danley wouldn't have a good reason to use a 2" or a 3" woofer in his commercial products, due to power handling issues. But at home you can get the efficiency of those tiny drivers into the 90s on a horn. So four 2" drivers on a conical horn can end up with an efficiency in the high 90s.
3) It's tempting to use a 6" or an 8" woofer in a Synergy horn, but keep in mind that getting the phase right is tougher when the bandwidth is wider. For instance, it's easier for me to get the xover right when I'm using a 2" driver that covers the two octaves from 300hz to 1200hz than it is to do it with an 8" driver covering 150hz to 1200hz. On top of that, the larger drivers generally have a lower FS than the small drivers, which tends to 'push' your bandwidth lower in frequency. And THAT makes it harder to 'meet up' with your compression driver.
4) Even a crude phase plug can improve the high frequency output of the midrange
Having said all of that, it's definitely worth a try. I've long wondered what a Synergy horn two way with a couple of B&C eights and a BMS compression driver would sound like.
Don't tell Tom that, one of his early Unity two way horns used dual 8" with a 1" CD in a relatively compact size
Depends on what the op thinks is large! When I think large I'm thinking 12"+
Like I said, 'relatively'.......'large' wasn't mentioned by the OP. Regardless, the two way has significantly less bulk than a three way of ~ the same BW.
Horn systems are large compared to 'monkey coffins', so if 12" is big, then no point in considering them since no has yet to figure out how to shrink a sound WL.
GM
Horn systems are large compared to 'monkey coffins', so if 12" is big, then no point in considering them since no has yet to figure out how to shrink a sound WL.
GM
I'm thinking one Eminence 8" coax with the unity type horn "set into" it and grafted right on top of the little 50 series tweeter then filled/channeled (whatever you call that cone shaped biscuit that compresses the air inside the driver) into the throat holes might get you to around 150 hz. The 120 degree or so bevel of the speaker cone being a lot greater than the 60 or so conical horn, would allow the cone to "surround' torn. just thinking out loud, this might get you a lot of spl plus work around the fr phase-y issues inherent to the coax. Hmmmmmm.
A bit of sleuthing around seems to indicate that the Renkus speakers are using a custom 1" compression driver with a mylar diaphragm, which radiates through the pole of an 8" woofer.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
My initial guess was that the midrange was the Eminence Alpha 8MRA, but the surround looks different. The Eminence is $50 so the price is right
The compression driver appears to be the RCF N350. Renkus Heinz appears to do part sharing with RCF and EAW, so it's very likely that there's some customizations to it. But the diaphragm is interchangeable and the outside sure looks the same to me.
On a side note, I used to have some Radian compression drivers which were very nice. And as I understand it, there are some connections between Emilar, Renkus Heinz, and Radian. (This was documented over on Audio Asylum a few years back.)
I'm interested in this thread having long dreamt of turning my TPL-150H and 12" Beyma Liberty-8s into a Synergy. I'm hoping someone can give me the words of encouragement that might prompt me to try build some Synergies.
Currently they're in OB with the Liberty-8 doing from about 200hz and up. XO could comfortably be 1k. I'm looking at moving into a smaller apartment next year and don't mind how big the horns would be, I just want the greater coherence in the near field that the Synergies should offer (got to hear some Danley SM60F last week, used in an amateur studio as near-field monitors, the 'big headphone' description I've heard seemed quite apt)
Danley uses 12" in his SH50's though not expending nearly as high. I was worried their might be issues running a driver up to 1k with the holes far from the throat, but are yoU guys suggesting that with digital delay there might not be a problem?
The other unknown is the TPL-150H AMT, there's been others thinking of using it in a Synergy, but as far as I know no one's been brave enough to give it a crack?
Cheers
B
Currently they're in OB with the Liberty-8 doing from about 200hz and up. XO could comfortably be 1k. I'm looking at moving into a smaller apartment next year and don't mind how big the horns would be, I just want the greater coherence in the near field that the Synergies should offer (got to hear some Danley SM60F last week, used in an amateur studio as near-field monitors, the 'big headphone' description I've heard seemed quite apt)
Danley uses 12" in his SH50's though not expending nearly as high. I was worried their might be issues running a driver up to 1k with the holes far from the throat, but are yoU guys suggesting that with digital delay there might not be a problem?
The other unknown is the TPL-150H AMT, there's been others thinking of using it in a Synergy, but as far as I know no one's been brave enough to give it a crack?
Cheers
B
^^Yes. This was my initial thought when I first learned of the Synergy SH50 . I have been on the fence concerning purchasing a LCR SH50 or SM60F for too long. At times I think I should just build a SEOS kit and be done with it. Im plagued by the thought of dropping $$$ And then having Danley unveil a design a little more refined for home use. (this coming from a person who hasn't the faintest clue in regards to 85%+ of what is being discussed in this forum.)
Always lurking and reading concepts to which i have no understanding.
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