Vintage speaker identification

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Strange. I thought it was the other way around and why a higher qts driver can respond further below the resonant frequency?

Hmm, we're having a 'failure to communicate'. ;) The math is correct and if you play with a simming program it will become obvious, so you have it backwards from the physics POV.

From a pragmatic POV, the wider the BW, either the greater the cab gain required [fancy horn cab complexity] or the more of its efficiency must be traded for a flat response; so nowadays with relatively inexpensive plentiful power available, starting with a low efficiency, high power handling driver in a simple cab is what most folks opt for and if more efficiency is required, then they use more drivers, power.

GM
 
Thanks for the advice Inductor and GM.

The box I was thinking of putting the 135KEP in is the midrange box here. It is a triple resonator with several small ports interconnecting them: http://www.passion-elipson.com/cabasseforum/1303/elipson_1303_1.jpg

I think this may be a game of luck for me in some senses as it is a world of unknown analog's in many ways. shame I can't remember how they sounded with the original Audax drivers as it was so long ago!

Seems pretty hard to source the "Audax HIF13 H" which was the original driver used for both chambers in the cabinet
 
That driver looks good, although expensive.

No, not expensive '' per se ''...
If you think you get the most """" compatible power driver in the world, for that application, with a good resolution (if the answer is yes?!), I never saw it and others are title to their own opinion Morel ECW 536 Coppersleeve 5" Woofer 297-123 , for a specific speaker (read reverse engineering or new prototype, doesn't matter) then if you consider all issues, sound output (must be) acceptable here and must excel, then you have a winner to compare with the most expensive $5.000 USD amps and AUDIOPHILE hi-fi sets. No I don't think 200 (1x or two mids) for this reference quality 5,25" woofer/midrange it's expensive and I own 1K+ to 2K USD speakers (for the sake of it, really good) and I'm thinking very seriously building a top notch, super-duper impressive speaker with it, ...or other driver. (Insert here the quality of the sound comparing with other good drivers tested already... or that can succeed in one or your own app) and that's what makes the/A winner. :)

I'm guessing you don't have the original crossover neither? :D ...so it's just talk, NPI. :rolleyes:
 
I would definitely get that driver if I had the money, but at the moment I am on a budget so can't afford that.

One other point, that driver is 4 ohms, is that not going to cause an issue as the original setup is 8 ohm.

The cross-overs ARE original yes. We replaced a couple of capacitor with the same specification but the circuits are un-touched otherwise.
 
Seems pretty hard to source the "Audax HIF13 H" which was the original driver used for both chambers in the cabinet

Hmm, missed this tidbit...... In this case, this is the goal, so WRT using the 135KEP for both, then based on its published specs, it ideally wants a bit larger cab tuned higher due to its higher Qts, Fs, so will in theory need both the cabs and XO re-tuned, though it's possible that just one or the other will be good enough. The XO is the easiest to do, so seems the one to try first.

Again though, specs can be pretty far off with Fs, Qts, often being higher, and changing the tuning of a BP alignment and XO by ear is normally a very tedious, time consuming affair that few ever master, even those with above average hearing.

Fortunately, we tend to enjoy what we build even when it measures really bad. :)

GM
 
haha your last comment reigns true sometimes.

Audax:
Fs - 42
qts - .29
Vas - 14.1

135KEP:
Fs - 45
qts - .30
Vas - 15.5

Do you think that difference is going to ruin the sound using the existing cab and XO?

Or do you think it will be quite acceptable?

In all honesty I'm not going to spend aaages fiddling with this. I'm going to select parts, fit them, re-finish the cabinets and enjoy listening to detailed music on them and hope they make me smile.
 
Tom,
That's great news, you have the original crossovers! Would be nice to post the complete crossover layout to full documenting the project.
This means you should go with the drivers that first meet the original specifications. Reverse engineering, again, as much as possible.
Do you know the drivers used in the woofer and tweeter yet?! The low frequency driver is a 210mm or 8" (in a bandpass enclosure from what I see). :eek:

Maybe with some similitude to this - Audax HP210Z0 or not, do you know?.
Audax HP210Z0
This type of work is very difficult (research), takes time but is deeply satisfying.
Link for another 8" Davis driver - Davis Acoustics 19MP6R.
Davis Acoustics 19MP6R (8Ohm)

You can find here a similar project (French) but with a different setup and drivers.
"The French Touch" by yov/diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/229495-new-3-way-project-french-touch.html#post3359737
Play close attention to the pdf with the Davis drivers and to the original crossover, on post #12 posted by Pascal GUERIN.
Stay put. :cool:

Ps. You can model woofers and enclosures with software like WinISD or Unibox to name just two. :)
 

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Hi mate

as mentioned before, my speakers are the version where the bass and mid woofers are the same HIF13 H driver.

This is why I thought of using this for the bass woofer replacement: SPH-135C

Yes it has a large coil which nicely cuts the bass down low. Why is that the dream of DIYer's? Because they're expensive coils?
 
No, I think, it's because it's what they call a 2-Way (Elipson 1302 being a real bookshelf 2-Way). Anyway you missed the point, the dream is having a speaker crossover-less or with a few components, being a 1. order (with only 1 crossover component) already difficult to find. But I digress... Now they call it a 2.5-Way. In this case is different. The woofer, that is the same for mid and bass duties (2 drivers connected in parallel each with 15 Ohms?? :scratch1:), said woofer is in a bandpass enclosure working as an acoustic crossover with LF bandpass and midbass rolloff. If this makes sense to you. I would like to see the speakers and crossovers. Can you post yours? (or is it the same posted above?)

The speakers: It's like early versions started with 2x13cm drivers, then later 17cm + 13cm Mid, and later a 21cm Woofer + 13cm Mid.

  • 1303D: with 6 drivers 2xWoofers, 2xMidbass, 1 Mid dome and Tweeter
  • B 1303: with 3 drivers, 2x17cm + Tweeter.
  • 1303X: with 3 drivers, 1x17cm Woofer + 1x13cm Mid cone + Tweeter.

The tweeter used (with reference Siare, for previous 1303) was later replaced by a HD 12X9B25 Audax (??) this one being for sale now.
AUDAX TW025A0 c/w 12 x 9 cm FACEPLATE - direct replacement for HD 12X9D25 link here to falconacoustics.co.uk
How is it going? New developments?! Regards. :)
 
Hi sorry for the delay I did not see this message.

Yes that is the tweeter it came with. I think my Seas h087's will sound better though no? I think they sound amazing compared to many tweeters. I hear a lot of detail in them.

Mine were definately the 2x13cm woofers + 1 tweeter originally.

The cross overs are un-touched.

I can't afford the new drivers yet but am really looking forward to restoring them!
 
Hi mate

Got loads going on personally so no time to get info right now. To make a stand alone sub I re-created the internal dimensions (minus the angled off corners at the front, my box is square looking from above so there is slightly more volume). Fitted one of these: Monacor Belgium N.V. S.A. - Dealer Area - SPH-135TC: HiFi Woofer with Twin Coil [ 101430 ]

And this port: MONACOR MBR-85 85MM BASS REFLEX TUBE SPEAKER PORT | eBay

Sounds great, very deep.

I made cross overs for the woofers with coils but can't remember the values, had to be pretty big though.
 
Tom, don't know if you're still reading this thread but I have a pair of these speakers!
Brand is Spectrum built by The Radio People in Hong Kong. I bought them 2ndh off a friend (who lived in HK for several years) when he returned to Australia. They're still going strong. As others have said I believe they're based on the Elipson 1303. Ever seen the Hegeman horn? This one built by the Radio People.
retro vintage modern hi-fi: Lowther Hegerman Teak 1950-1951 Pair
regards Ian
 
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