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Old 18th September 2013, 02:19 PM   #81
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Here's some pics of the XT25 wg with Vifa P21 that I rescued from my Apogee Centaurs.
The first picture shows the mounting arrangement I used for the tweeter.
I've listened to voice, piano and orchestral so far and with the crossover at 1800Hz, 4th order on the tweeter and 2nd order on the woofer, a little EQ via the minidsp, quite satisfied. Nothing is "WOW-that's impressive, but very smooth, musical and, a bonus is that the 8" woofer performs so much better in the 1.2cuft cabinet than over-stuffed in the .7cuft Centaurs.
Vertical dispersion is massively improved over the Centaurs, and there is not a bad seat in the room. More dynamic than the Apogees, too.
I'll keep playing.
Peter
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Old 18th September 2013, 05:08 PM   #82
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Dispersion should be a wow.

What size cap are you using to get the response back to flat? If you arent and are just using EQ, you are missing out on the cap lowering the 300-1500 stimulating frequencies that cause the higher order distortion. That cap keeps lowering distortion far outside its pass band
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Old 18th September 2013, 06:20 PM   #83
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The sort of WOW I meant is that nothing about the speakers appears excessive. You know, the sort of thing that can impress in a dealer's showroom or one's own diy project and after a few hours, becomes fatiguing. Dispersion is wonderful, but I usually sit in the same central location when I'm listening, so that doesn't concern me too much. It's certainly a huge improvement over the Centaurs, which have been my reference for 22 years. I have built several speakers over the last few years, and these may displace the Apogees. First impressions is that they are silky smooth yet have oomph when needed.
No cap being used- I wouldn't know where to start. The only measuring tools I have are a Radio Shack spl meter and two ears, and they are no longer effective beyond 10kHz (the ears), so I'm not sure I could hear the distortion you mention?
SpinMonster, thanks for all the posts-they have encouraged me in this previously unknown area, to me.
Peter
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Old 19th September 2013, 07:09 AM   #84
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The wow on your speaker is how beautiful that WG is.

I owned the apogee stage and never had anything better. I had the Krell KSA250 with all top shelf parts in the system. When I sold that speaker it was my intention to upgrade but Jason Bloom died and the company with it. His dad sold the company but they discontinued making ribbon speakers. I thought I'd one day own that transparency again but It became difficult to justify the expense if replacement parts were in question. I'm aware of Graz selling great replacements but I no longer want a system that needs to be listened to in that 12" sweet spot.

My current speakers dont have that ribbon transparency or depth of sound stage but what I have is 95% of the best I've heard.

If I can find a prime example of the Duetta signature I will buy it for a dedicated music system in one of the unused rooms in my home. My home theater needs the dynamics and SPL of the wave guide system which sounds good anywhere in the 21 x 21 foot home theater.

Last edited by SpinMonster; 19th September 2013 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 19th September 2013, 07:09 AM   #85
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
I can turn a knob to vary a cross over freq to test power handling but some how that demonstrates the dark side of active cross overs....flying blind.

I think the case here is that the WG makes the XT25 so much wider in effective band than a bare XT25 that its overlap to the usable RS180 range can land anywhere between the frequencies I tried with the end result sounding fine with any of them. To exaggerate the example, if I was matching the RS180 with an RD50 from BG, the cross over is not limited to one dead on freq because their ranges overlap so much.
Spinmonster, it doesn't. You have an understanding of what you're hearing from your drivers. I was more interested in how you sized up the drivers individually and brought them together, and I probably should have used a () in that post.
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Old 19th September 2013, 07:17 AM   #86
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I had response graphs from both; RS180 builds are all over the net and Dave supplied the curves for the XT25 w/WG. I have a 31 band analyzer and aligned everything based on those elements. The acoustic centers are about as close to perfect as it can get. The DCX2496 fixes a multitude of irregularities.
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Old 19th September 2013, 07:25 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjblakey View Post
Here's some pics of the XT25 wg with Vifa P21 that I rescued from my Apogee Centaurs.
The Vifa is a perfect match to the WG. Its likely one of the only 8" I would use and I did look into it as a great driver. Its top end was really well behaved.

How tight does the bass sound? The centaurs had nothing great to talk about in the bass dept. Ported would wake it up.

Your WG's are beautiful. Where can I get a pair? I'd love to see them stained and polyurethaned in high gloss. I bet horns and female vocals are magic on them.
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Old 19th September 2013, 07:30 AM   #88
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Why did the response drop so much after 10 kHz?
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Old 19th September 2013, 07:37 AM   #89
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Wave guides are designed to boost the bottom end. This one boosts up to 12K. I need about 5db EQ to be flat to 20K. I can hear above 16K so its irelevant to me. Also Wave guides aren't about being a flat response, they are about getting back to flat with a cap to kill low end distortion.

The drop off up top has to do with throat size. You cant maximize everything. What is improved outweighs the extreme top end. It isnt something noticed even without EQ.

Last edited by SpinMonster; 19th September 2013 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 19th September 2013, 08:34 AM   #90
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
I had response graphs from both; RS180 builds are all over the net and Dave supplied the curves for the XT25 w/WG. I have a 31 band analyzer and aligned everything based on those elements. The acoustic centers are about as close to perfect as it can get. The DCX2496 fixes a multitude of irregularities.
I guess you're correcting for group delay in the waveguide, how much does doing this extend the usable bandwidth?
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