I'm going that route with mine. Chronicled in the thread "Monster Massive"
The dipole arrangement has a few advantages:
1) The sounds doesn't seem 'attached' to the horn. The horn disappears better.
2) It reduces the "I'm listening to a giant set of headphones" effect that you get with regular Synergy horns. (In a club or church, you *want* that effect, because it allows you to array them better, but at home, I like to minimize that effect.)
3) It's easier to build, easier to find midranges
Well of course you are right , but the thing is the vast majority if them have the potential to sound great. FWIW the more I learn from the design angle the more I'm certain that yours already do, and anything that I wish I could change about them is something that you would too if it were economically feasible. Case in point, I now know that a dedicated tweeter midrange is a complete mistake when using a compression driver in a home environment, with the headroom available there is simply no reason not to stretch it as far as the harmonic distortion component on a given horn with a given driver for a given spl will allow, and in a home as opposed to a theater or club that will be a LOT of headroom indeed! I'm so glad you are getting smarter E.G. I was concerned for you when I was younger and knew more.
what is the purpose of band passing the rear firing set of speakers? What are the cut off frequencies?
Hi Tom and Dr Geddes,
I know this is a very old thread, but did Tom have chance to visit Dr Geddes place ?
Just curious to know if we will see Synergy polars on Dr Geddes polar map software .
And Tom, I hope your home variant of SM60 (or maybe SM96 as they are 90 x 60) , which have much flatter response, are also sold someday...
I know this is a very old thread, but did Tom have chance to visit Dr Geddes place ?
Just curious to know if we will see Synergy polars on Dr Geddes polar map software .
And Tom, I hope your home variant of SM60 (or maybe SM96 as they are 90 x 60) , which have much flatter response, are also sold someday...
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Hi Tom and Dr Geddes,
I know this is a very old thread, but did Tom have chance to visit Dr Geddes place ?
Just curious to know if we will see Synergy polars on Dr Geddes polar map software .
And Tom, I hope your home variant of SM60 (or maybe SM96 as they are 90 x 60) , which have much flatter response, are also sold someday...
Hi
No i didn't get a chance to before i moved to Georgia, maybe i can next time i go north to visit my brother.
From the outset, we supplied the polar data in the two formats that are used in commercial sound design, EASE and CLF, the "common loudspeaker format" (the latter has a lot more than just polar data and many of the products are independently measured).
We also have the CLF data in the free "Direct" software we give away which is much faster than EASE for what most designers need for venue and stadium design jobs. Right now about half of the 100,000 seat plus stadiums have switched from line arrays to Synergy horns and several more will next season.
Right now there are a couple pairs of the home / studio sm-60 version and a well known studio in Memphis is installing some in a mix down suite but other than that, the home market is not attractive to the office in light of all the stadium work going on using the larger boxes.
Hope that helps
Tom
Hello Dr Geddes and Tom,
I just realized one thing.
As Dr. Geddes has mentioned here http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/directivity.pdf
".....and just as clearly by 1 kHz we need to have the directivity well under control since, by this frequency, the ear is beginning
to get quite sensitive to reflections and timing aberrations......"
The above fact applies to normal listening rooms. I guess it doesn't apply to vast open spaces where synergy horns are used , right ?
Now my question is : Will the benefit of large synergy horns (and hence their very low pattern control ability) be diminished in normal rooms , due to this fact ?
Though I think one benefit of synergy horn may still be applicable, esp. the asymmetric ones.
Which is, the ability to have a narrower vertical pattern (than horizontal) but same vertical pattern control frequency as horizontal.
Something which is a tradeoff between elliptical and circular waveguides.
[Kindly forgive if there are some basic flaws in my understanding]
I just realized one thing.
As Dr. Geddes has mentioned here http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/directivity.pdf
".....and just as clearly by 1 kHz we need to have the directivity well under control since, by this frequency, the ear is beginning
to get quite sensitive to reflections and timing aberrations......"
The above fact applies to normal listening rooms. I guess it doesn't apply to vast open spaces where synergy horns are used , right ?
Now my question is : Will the benefit of large synergy horns (and hence their very low pattern control ability) be diminished in normal rooms , due to this fact ?
Though I think one benefit of synergy horn may still be applicable, esp. the asymmetric ones.
Which is, the ability to have a narrower vertical pattern (than horizontal) but same vertical pattern control frequency as horizontal.
Something which is a tradeoff between elliptical and circular waveguides.
[Kindly forgive if there are some basic flaws in my understanding]
low pattern control ability? How so? They are conical horns with anti-waistbanding flare, what has better or more consistent pattern control (see Keele). And how does size enter in? That should only affect lower pattern control limit frequency. Or maybe I misunderstand your comment?
Again ...?? I don't think Synergy horns can do that, at least not inherently. Ive got some sketches and a scheme to try for that, but haven't heard that it had ever been done yet. To have the same pattern control cutoff with different angles, the horn will have to be larger and effectively longer for the dimension with narrower angle. Current asymmetric horns have different lower pattern control frequencies for horizontal and vertical.
Here's where to see the relationships-- http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/PDF/Keele%20(1975-05%20AES%20Preprint)%20-%20Whats%20So%20Sacred%20Exp%20Horns.pdf
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Having heard the SH-50s in a medium size room, like a big living room, I can say they are amazing in that size space. Very good tonal balance, precise image. Like big headphones, but better.
In larger rooms they are not quite as remarkable, but that's to be expected.
I'd love to get some on the Ironman World Championship race here next year. The line arrays were not cutting it for long throw this year. Need to throw about 250 yards and not kill the ears up close.
In larger rooms they are not quite as remarkable, but that's to be expected.
I'd love to get some on the Ironman World Championship race here next year. The line arrays were not cutting it for long throw this year. Need to throw about 250 yards and not kill the ears up close.
What I meant is : If something like SEOS15 can hold the dispersion pattern till ~700Hz and if SH50 can hold it much lower (say 500Hz or even lower) will that advantage be noticeable due to decreasing sensitivity to reflection and timing aberrations ?
I guess what you are saying is thats not the real advantage, but something else
My understanding was Synergy horn can hold the pattern equally low for horizontal as well as vertical , unlike say SEOS. Looks like I got it wrong.
But then I then wonder whats the real advantage of synergy over something like SEOS, esp for home usage.
Will go through this doc. Thanks!
Synergy horn emulates a point source. The mids/highs are just ~1/4wl apart. The band-pass alignment of the mids produces a very clean sound with great detail
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But its just a matter for distance from point source perspective, beyond some point, both will be point source, isn't it ?
The SEOS will have vertical polar directivity variability at the XO region as it is asymmetric with a single woofer outside. The synergy is truly point source and symmetric so no beam steering within XO range. They truly sound special - the Trynergy (tractrix full range synergy variant I built) is perhaps the best sounding speaker I have heard. The imaging, dynamic head room, resolution and low distortion are all the best I have built or heard.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ing-trynergy-full-range-tractrix-synergy.html
Thats correct if one takes into account only the direct sound to the listener. However, when we consider the radiation in all the directions, then we find that the Synergy still maintains the point source behavior for eg upward downward radiation. It is this that makes the reflections spectrally identical to the direct sound.
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