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Old 1st September 2013, 12:49 PM   #1
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Default TDL RTL3 upgrade

Hi all,

I've been lurking around here for a fair while trying to absorb information with a view to building myself some full range speakers, but have decided I might be better starting my attempts somewhere simpler. With that in mind, I thought about upgrading my RTL3s (I have the later Special Edition models). I've enjoyed these for a good few years, but have always thought that they don't cope with modern, more bassy, music particularly well ...tending to get a bit 'flabby'.

Has anyone any experience or suggestions for a suitable driver upgrade that will tighten them up? I should probably mention that the amp that I use is a Marantz PM7200 KI signature.

...any advice would be appreciated.

Bob
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Old 1st September 2013, 01:10 PM   #2
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For the money/time you are going to spend why not starting a new project...
CNO-25
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Old 1st September 2013, 01:25 PM   #3
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I'd say it's more a problem with them being transmission line speakers, rather than the drivers fault.

If you want tight bass you can't beat a sealed box with a box Q of under 8. There aren't many diy acoustic-suspension designs around though.
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Old 1st September 2013, 01:29 PM   #4
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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The problem with big transmission lines, which go deep, is you usually don't have a room big enough to stop them booming!

The specs are roughly as follows:
Technical Specifications
RTL3
Reflex transmission line loading floor standing

Two 172 mm loaded polypropylene cone with forward roll rubber surround & phase plug - long throw double wound coil on kapton former with bump back magnet yoke.
19mm soft dome ferro-fluid cooled
Electrical 2 way second order network
35hZ-20kHz
90dB at 1m for 1 watt
8 ohm nominal
20-120 watts per channel
900mm wide x 375mm deep
Black ash or rosewood
21Kg each

The 2nd order crossover is a bit odd IMO, with a resistive shunt across the basses, Looks like the basses are wired in parallel, but it would be a heck of a job to redesign it, though I'd start with a 5kHz notch on the basses.

Excellent info here on the RTL3 model.
Creating a new MTM Floorstanding speaker using the drivers from the TDL RTL3.

A metal dome tweeter might be a slot in replacement for the soft dome. What size is the cutout?
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Old 1st September 2013, 03:04 PM   #5
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Thanks for your responses.

So I'm sensing there might not be that much to gain from messing with the RTL3s, or at least, no certainty of much gain for what could be more effort than I had first thought. As Inductor suggests, maybe I should start from scratch, although I think that may be a bit beyond me at the moment. Perhaps a kit, or at least a tried and tested formula? To be honest, that was mostly why I had originally thought of building full range speakers as a starting point ...a relatively simple and tried and tested build (such as the Frugal horns), albeit with a more complex cabinet design (which would not be a problem for me). But the more I've read, the more it seems to get good bass from fullrange you need mahoosive cabinets.

By the by, the room size thing is probably very pertinent, as when I first had the TDLs they were in a pretty large living space compared to now, and I don't remember thinking there was a problem with them then.
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Old 1st September 2013, 05:13 PM   #6
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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The issue with these speakers seems to be whether they have Monacor SPH-175 polys or paper Visaton WS17E.

The latter is used in a published design, an MMT called the CLOU:

CLOU

You need to dissect and measure the crossover. Very little can be done without a schematic. Once that is done, this gets easier.

I'd like to know what is going on with the cabinet construction too, which is mainly a reflex by the look of it. Really, how much help you get depends on supplying some good info. Vikash seems a good man and did good measurements, but not a crossover expert. He could have done better, IMO.
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Last edited by system7; 1st September 2013 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 1st September 2013, 05:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
The issue with these speakers seems to be whether they have Monacor SPH-175 polys or paper Visaton WS17E.

The latter is used in a published design, an MMT called the CLOU:

CLOU

You need to dissect and measure the crossover. Very little can be done without a schematic. Once that is done, this gets easier.

I'd like to know what is going on with the cabinet construction too, which is mainly a reflex by the look of it. Really, how much help you get depends on supplying some good info. Vikash seems a good man and did good measurements, but not a crossover expert. He could have done better, IMO.
They look more like the Visiton, although they have a phase plug ...shame really, seeing as they're priced at around 17 online rather than the 50 or so for the Monacors. That suggests my TDLs might be an inferior version. Which also begs the question,and I apologise if this is a really stupid question, but would replacing the drivers with the Monacors in itself be an upgrade/improvement?
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Old 1st September 2013, 07:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shedlock View Post
...when I first had the TDLs they were in a pretty large living space compared to now, and I don't remember thinking there was a problem with them then.
Interesting...
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Old 1st September 2013, 07:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shedlock View Post
They look more like the Visiton...
As Steve said better knowing what you are working with. Check.
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Old 1st September 2013, 08:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shedlock View Post
They look more like the Visiton, although they have a phase plug ...shame really, seeing as they're priced at around 17 online rather than the 50 or so for the Monacors. That suggests my TDLs might be an inferior version. Which also begs the question,and I apologise if this is a really stupid question, but would replacing the drivers with the Monacors in itself be an upgrade/improvement?
Don't make the mistake of thinking price has anything to do with sound quality. It's quite possible the Visatons sound better than the Monacors.
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