TDL RTL3 upgrade - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st September 2013, 08:47 PM   #11
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
system7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Bob, you should be able to tell polypropylene from paper cones just by looking at them and touching them. Plastic is shiny stuff like plastic detergent bottles, paper is, well, cardboardy like your cornflake packet.

We are still stuck at the starting gate here...

Photos might help.

And, yes, Mr. Marley is right, price is no indication of quality really. You can do a lot with a good crossover. My favourite Visaton TW 70 cone tweeter costs just 10.
__________________
Well, there it is! Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st September 2013, 09:32 PM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
shedlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
Bob, you should be able to tell polypropylene from paper cones just by looking at them and touching them. Plastic is shiny stuff like plastic detergent bottles, paper is, well, cardboardy like your cornflake packet.
Ah but what if the cardboard is coated with plastic .

My considered opinion is that they're the Visatons ...they're the same as these in the pik (but my cabinets are oak finish).

Click the image to open in full size.

Having read up a bit this evening on anything I could find, it would seem there are differing opinions as to whether these are variants of the Visaton W170 S or the WS 17 E drivers. On the off chance that I might get a reply, I've emailed Visaton to ask if they can clarify, but I think I'll go ahead with the Clou idea anyway, using these drivers, and see how it turns out .
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st September 2013, 11:37 PM   #13
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
system7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by shedlock View Post
Ah but what if the cardboard is coated with plastic .

My considered opinion is that they're the Visatons ...they're the same as these in the pik (but my cabinets are oak finish).
You haven't a clue really! They could be Elac units too.

Now have a look at the back of the cones, they won't be coated with anything. Polypropylene is really quite distinctive shiny smooth stuff. Not as scratchy sounding as paper.
__________________
Well, there it is! Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2013, 12:13 AM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
shedlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
You haven't a clue really! They could be Elac units too.

Now have a look at the back of the cones, they won't be coated with anything. Polypropylene is really quite distinctive shiny smooth stuff. Not as scratchy sounding as paper.
Now here's a thing ...I've managed to locate specs for both the original RTL3s with the Monacor squared-off-edge drivers, and the special edition RTL3s (like mine), and both specify a polypropylene cone. The difference in the specs is the tweeter, which is 19mm for the early version, and 25mm for the special edition, also the frequency range goes down to 30hz for the latter, as opposed to 35hz.

Although not that relevant to this, I'm pretty sure the tweeters are Eltax item 03045.

I haven't got the speakers with me at the moment, they're in the workshop, but I'll take the drivers out first thing tomorrow and see if that sheds any light on things.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2013, 12:41 AM   #15
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
I's suggest that with these speakers, cleaning up the XOs, stuffening the cabinet, oprimizing damping, and driver tweaks would be as far as you want to go. All relatively low material costs, but lots of research & hand's on. Learn without spencing much.

Pictures of the drivers out of the box, the XO, and a few inside shots of the box would be helpful

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2013, 09:51 AM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
shedlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Well, they're definitely polypropylene cones. No manufacturer's name (that would be too easy) but there is this on them... 172-NS-08.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

There didn't seem a lot of point in photographing the crossovers, as without mullering them, all you can see is the underside of the circuit board ...the components are hidden between that and the the terminal plate thing.

I have to say, I'm amazed that these unimposing, even feeble, looking drivers manage to produce the amount of bass they do in those cabinets.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2013, 06:42 PM   #17
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
system7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
That's good stuff, Bob. I think those are ELAC units. Probably similar to the 172 NS 05 which has a 34mm voice coil. Probably 7 ohms DC resistance if nominal 8 ohms, but worth measuring.

I get a Vas around 15L and a Qts around 0.44 and Fs 32Hz and 87dB sensitivity. Closed box drivers really. Will work in 10-20L if I haven't lost my touch.

Your crossover may be similar to Vikash's one on the bass part. But you have a 25mm tweeter rather than the feeble 19mm jobbie. What tweeter cutout and motor hole do you have? 94mm or maybe 104mm outer diameter?

I'd have to model that overheating 10R bass shunt to figure out a better way of doing it. But progress.
__________________
Well, there it is! Best regards from Steve in Portsmouth, UK.

Last edited by system7; 2nd September 2013 at 06:56 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2013, 08:58 PM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
shedlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Well a swift google of Elac 172 NS 08 and (ta-da) this pops up quick as you like! So the whole Visaton thing's just a massive red herring ...amazing how there's so much written out there pointing to them.

The tweeter hole is 79mm with the recess at 100mm, and (if you need it) the hole for the driver is 150mm.

Bob
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2013, 11:21 PM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
shedlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
ps ...has your 'System 7' anything to do with Steve Hillage's System 7?
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2013, 11:07 AM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
shedlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
I've spent a bit of time this morning trawling what I could find on the net in the hope of finding a scheme specifically for the 'special edition' crossover. The only thing I've been able to discern for sure is that what made them 'special edition' was an upgraded crossover and tweeter (as well as better quality internal cabling ...oh, and gold coloured screws for the drivers!).

I haven't mentioned that I also have a pair of RTL1s. These I bought in the mid nineties, if I remember correctly, and it was the fact that I liked these so much that led me to eventually get hold of their bigger brothers when I was looking for a new pair of floorstanders years later. They're not badged as SE, but have the same drivers and overall cosmetic appearance ...rounded bottoms to speaker grills etc.

I know the crossovers are going to be different, only having the one woofer, but I would be prepared to risk wrecking these crossovers to see how they're constructed if it could be helpful. I can't get hold of them for a day or so, as they're currently in storage following a recent move, when I do I'll check to see if they have the same tweeters as the SEs.

I did find this listing/info on hebay (of all places) which I think might be worth a link.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rehousing speaker - TDL RTL3 Vikash Multi-Way 73 9th January 2013 04:36 PM
TDL RTL3's -Advice needed! bertieduff Multi-Way 17 14th September 2010 04:14 PM
TDL RTL3 Blown Mid Bass unit Fanuc Multi-Way 11 8th April 2009 03:25 PM
TDL Studio 1 Paul Smith Multi-Way 3 22nd January 2005 11:05 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:11 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2