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Old 30th August 2013, 06:50 PM   #1
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Default Dayton RS Speaker Resolution

Just a quick question - I am looking at using Dayton RS125 (5") or RS150 (6") woofers in a new two-way project and am wondering how good is the resolution of the Dayton Reference Series of drivers? For a source I am using a S5 electronics K14G amp and the Audioquest Dragonfly. I am currently using the Zaph Audio Mini and the full range Tang Band bamboo drivers for my speakers. I am of the opinion that a fully modded K12G amp is capable of providing a higher level of sound quality than I can get from my two current speakers.

My goal is to build a speaker that I can be sure has high enough resolution to hear the changes to my amp as I modify it. If the Dayton's are not good enough to provide the resolution or detail that I am looking for, what will?

-Steven
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Old 30th August 2013, 10:25 PM   #2
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Hi Steven

I have the RS180. Resolution is pretty good. One can safely assume that the RS125 and RS150 would be similar.

You may want to have a look at my latest 2-way. I'm using Zaph ZA14 with the Vifa XT25TG30. Resolution of the ZA14 is similar to the RS Series.

More importantly, the phasing is quite linear. Impedance is friendly too. Ideal for testing power amplifiers.

Regards
Mike
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Last edited by Michael Chua; 30th August 2013 at 10:26 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 30th August 2013, 11:35 PM   #3
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The Swift Ultima seems like a well-researched and put together project....got me interested in it!!!
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Old 31st August 2013, 04:43 AM   #4
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Default I like 'em...

I designed the "Stance" kit that Meniscus sells as a kit, and I really like this little design. One of my best:
Stance Photos by wolf_teeth_speaker | Photobucket

On the left here:
Click the image to open in full size.

Others have liked them a lot too. I placed 3rd in the <$200 Open class in MWAF 2012 event with them.

Later,
Wolf
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Old 31st August 2013, 12:29 PM   #5
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I have RS-150s and have listened extensively to RS-180s when I built a pair of Nat-Ps for a buddy. Ironically the 150s need to be crossed lower than the 180s due to breakup modes.

That said, both are decent resolvers. The Nat-Ps clearly showed the difference between my Leach and his receiver. He was as thrilled to hear how much better they sounded than his old speakers as I was horrified at how much fuzzier they were.

The 150s are used in an active MT with a pair of A75s. XO to a 27TDFC with an elliptical filter is at 1600 Hz. Compared to the same setup (adjusted for sensitivity differences) with a Focal 6W4254 and TC120Tdx the RS was at least equal, if not a hair clearer. Yes, I could hear a difference between Leach Amps and the Pass A75 with either.

If you want to go up a notch in resolution in that size range consider the Seas W-15CY. In a 0.375 cubic foot enclosure it will go low enough to cross to a sub at 60 Hz if your room isn't huge. Of course it's a big step up in price for a small improvement. Considering that it is one of Zaph's favorite drivers I wouldn't be surprised if the ZA14 is VERY similar.

Hope this long winded reply helps.
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Old 1st September 2013, 12:17 AM   #6
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I just flicked through here because a customer sent me a link to something else over here, and normally I wouldn't respond to stuff like this, and hate to sound negative, but I also hate seeing people go down a bad path.

I had a guy bring me some of the Nat-P's. He hated the way they sounded and thought that he might have built them wrong. I measured and tested them for him. They were built as per the plans. They just had a muddy sound to the mid-range and lacked resolution.

The upper end of those drivers have a lot of break up and ring like crazy too. All of the rest of them that I have heard also had that same character. I am not a fan of that line.

There are better choices out there. Even the little paper cone woofer PE sells with the stamped steel basket has a much cleaner and more natural sounding mid-range. I'd keep looking.
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Old 1st September 2013, 05:53 AM   #7
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I have used the RS180 on 3 speakers. If used within their comfort zone, they are as good as the top shelf drivers. The RS180 has a very low distortion bass and misbass due to a motor design with shorting rings. I like stiff cones for transient speed. Its subjective but its there. The RS180 has break-ups at 6k and 9k which are caused by exciting 3k hz. You need to cross low to avoid this and what you then get is reference level.

I actively cross at 1700hz 4th order electrical to a XT25-60 in a wave guide that allows the low cross with low distortion on the XT25.

The RS150 actually needs a lower/steep cross than the RS180. If you can use the 180 sealed in about .5 cubic feet, its bass lines are detailed and very enjoyable.

I also built an MTM using the RS100 and those little guys can put out unbelievable low distortion bass for their size at 60hz ported.

An RS180 TMM system build thread is here:
My first wave guide speaker....lots of pics

This is the system:
Click the image to open in full size.

I look forward to seeing your system.
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Old 1st September 2013, 06:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
normally I wouldn't respond to stuff like this, and hate to sound negative, but I also hate seeing people go down a bad path.

I had a guy bring me some of the Nat-P's. He hated the way they sounded and thought that he might have built them wrong. I measured and tested them for him. They were built as per the plans. They just had a muddy sound to the mid-range and lacked resolution.

The upper end of those drivers have a lot of break up and ring like crazy too. All of the rest of them that I have heard also had that same character. I am not a fan of that line.

There are better choices out there. Even the little paper cone woofer PE sells with the stamped steel basket has a much cleaner and more natural sounding mid-range. I'd keep looking.
Making a statement about a driver based on how they sound and measure in a system is pretty misinformed. Any driver can sound bad if used incorrectly.
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Old 1st September 2013, 03:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
Making a statement about a driver based on how they sound and measure in a system is pretty misinformed. Any driver can sound bad if used incorrectly.
My opinion is never misinformation. I design loudspeakers professionally, drivers too. And I am highly accredited for my work. I have measured and tested with them and heard them in several different designs and in several different systems. They always have a similar character to me. The mid-range always has an artificial sound to it that sounds veiled and lacks a natural smoothness that I am used to. They just do not sound musical to me. I wouldn't recommend them.

If you like them, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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Old 1st September 2013, 03:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
My opinion is never misinformation. I design loudspeakers professionally, drivers too. And I am highly accredited for my work. I have measured and tested with them and heard them in several different designs and in several different systems. They always have a similar character to me. The mid-range always has an artificial sound to it that sounds veiled and lacks a natural smoothness that I am used to. They just do not sound musical to me. I wouldn't recommend them.

If you like them, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Of course, you sell your own line of drivers that look to be direct competitors to the RS series .. so I feel that it is fair to disclose that .. as it may sway "your opinion".
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