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Old 2nd September 2013, 08:38 AM   #41
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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One more candidate:

- TB W4-655: ultra smooth response, super clean waterfall, and very low distortion. And cheap at about 36 euros

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 10:12 AM   #42
Rudolf is offline Rudolf  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4real View Post
- TB W4-655: ultra smooth response, super clean waterfall, and very low distortion.
Attention! HH got those distortion measurements completely wrong. The correct ones are published in HH 3/2013 on page 80. The correct distortion is roughly 10 times higher than in your posted diagram.

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Old 2nd September 2013, 10:30 AM   #43
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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Okay, I missed that Then this one is out of the picture! Is it only the TB, or also the Monacor SP-4/60-PRO in the same issue?
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Old 2nd September 2013, 07:08 PM   #44
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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So to answer my own question: they messed up all the measurements of that test series I already found it strange to see all of those units perform so remarkably well.
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Old 8th September 2013, 07:41 PM   #45
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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I've had no opportunity this week to do some more measurements. I hope I can do it this week.

But I really need to decide what mid I'm going to use. The more I look, the more I find. For example, the Visaton B80 looks also very nice. It's not very cheap and performance is probably comparable with the Dayton RS100 (with cost about half). I also looked at Audax HM100Z0. It has high efficiency, and is supposed to be one of the best mid's out there. But sadly, I could not find any objective tests (HH 2001/1 has one, but the issue is not available anymore). Objective information about the PA units I found is also tricky...

So looking at all this, I guess I have two options left:

- MTM with Dayton RS100-8
- MT with Visaton Ti100

The second option is about twice as expensive. But looking at Zaphs site, it shows that the Ti100 has about 6 tot 10 dB less distortion in the usable range, which means a single Ti100 will probably beat two RS100's. So It might be worth the money?

Mean while, my wife and I have been listening to the current experimental setup a lot. One OB, and my old BR speaker to complete the stereo image Even now, the soundstage is amazing and it really is a joy to listen to it.
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Old 11th September 2013, 11:46 AM   #46
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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So today I finally had the time to do some more tweaking, and also do off-axis measurements. Here they are:

Click the image to open in full size.

As you can see, the NEO is very pronounced off-axis, with a of-axis bump between 2 and 3 Khz.

I also had some difficulty finding the correct x-over point between tweeter en woofers. The woofers are now at 2200 LR48, and the tweeter at 1200 LR48 I tried lots of stuff, but couldn't get it right.. The strange thing is, inverting the tweeter doesn't change a thing.. So any idea's on this are very welcome!
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Old 11th September 2013, 03:10 PM   #47
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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You are just facing the inevitable problem, when the woofer loses it's dipole directivity too early, because of the width of the baffle. The Tweeter doesn't have directivity that low, the result is what you measured (inconsistent directivity between 2 and 4 kHz)

The polarity invert test doesn't have any effect because slopes are not symmetric enough and propably also time alignment (adjust delay in minidsp) isn't correct. First you must look at acoustic responses of M and T as an overlay and adjust slopes/xo so that they make "by book" overlap, then invert polarity and adjust delays. it is very sensitive, usually a difference of just 0,02 - 0,06ms is enough. You must try which driver needs delay (the one that has it's acoustic center closer to the mic)

I guess that you noticed that I have decided to try Audax AM100Z0 for upper mids! I haven't received them yet, but they should perform rather well for my intended range. They have a problem of ringing (CSD) at 5kHz but I cross lower-
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Old 11th September 2013, 04:44 PM   #48
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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typo - HM100Z0 is correct
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Old 18th September 2013, 05:35 PM   #49
4real is offline 4real  Netherlands
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Ah yes, I should have thought about time alignment.. I'll try that.

Did you find any measurements for the HM100Z0? Funny that we both found that one, I didn't know you were also looking at it until I read your thread about the AINOgradient

Currently I have my mind set on the Ti100 though, if I can get it for a nice price.
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Old 18th September 2013, 07:43 PM   #50
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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About xos, first you must measure each driver individually and then do an overlay. The acoustic xo is most important, but naturally in minidsp both lower and upper must have very nearly same Fs and acoustic slopes must be symmetric. But there are exceptions, eg. linear phase approach usually with odd order or unsymmetric slopes. But LR12, LR24, LR48 should show nulling when polarity is reversed for other driver. (LR12 needs inverted polarity for normal operation)

Examples of measured slopes and phase behaviour
Attached Images
File Type: png ainog vx5 0¤ all indiv 20ms 112.png (98.1 KB, 78 views)
File Type: png ainog vX5 0¤ spl phase demo.png (73.6 KB, 22 views)
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