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Old 30th July 2013, 08:26 PM   #1
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Talking Radian/Jbl from 300hz and up or Lowthers

I have this doubt..

What is better from 300hz or 500hz and up ?

Paper cones like Lowthers Frontloaded Horns or HF Drivers Like Radian JBL B&C

I im building a 2 way speakers , woofer from40 hz to 300hz or 500hz and i dont know from here to 18khz ?

thanks

santiago
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Old 30th July 2013, 10:07 PM   #2
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Lowthers are at their best between 150 Hz and 1.2 kHz, higher in freq. and things start going wrong *fast*.

300 Hz is going to be tough to accomplish with a compression driver (that extends to 18 kHz). Particularly with respect to horn-size (..which starts becoming HUGE). It's not impossible, but it will be very difficult.

500 Hz..and higher - yeah, that's realistic. (..though a good horn/waveguide will still be large).

I prefer wider dispersion for a horn/waveguide - which tends to result in a larger sound-stage presentation. Here is the horn/waveguide I'd suggest:

Fiberglass SEOS-24? - The SEOS? Waveguides DIY Sound Group


From there it's about choosing your compression driver in the 1.4" to 1.5" exit grouping.

I like several of the 18 Sound drivers for their diaphragm material + suspension type + reasonably well-controlled impedance.

The single driver with the most "band for the buck" IMO would be the ND1460A, which can be purchased for as little as $330 US each in either the 8 ohm or 16 ohm versions:

18 Sound HF Compression Drivers

The Radian 745NEOPB is also very well received AND costs a bit less, but I've not seen its impedance profile. (..and the impedance profile could well cost you more in crossover components for correction than the difference in price between the drivers).


Also, as a general statement: the higher the driver's gauss the more "transparent" the driver relative to driver Mms and Sd. (..though transparency or extreme clarity is not always preferred).

This should mean that perceptually the 18 Sound 1480A is clearer than the Radian 745NEOPB, which is clearer than the 18 Sound 1460A.

Also, the larger the compression driver's diaphragm - generally the better it is at depth reproduction (..though usually with some resulting loss in treble dispersion). All 3 of the above drivers have 3" diameter drivers, however..

-there is also the newer Be driver from 18 Sound at only a little less than double the price of the 1480A with a 4" diaphragm (and in fact they have several others as well with 1.5" or even 1.4" exits that have 4" diameter diaphragms).
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Last edited by ScottG; 30th July 2013 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 30th July 2013, 11:45 PM   #3
3GGG is offline 3GGG  Australia
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The Radian 850pb with a Beryllium diaphragm in a 200Hz horn should do from 300Hz up pretty well, although with a small sweet spot.
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Old 31st July 2013, 11:10 AM   #4
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Excellent thread....just about to start similar.

Looking at the Autotech JMLC200, possibly with the BMS 4592, which is stated can run from 300hz.

My objective is mid bass attack/detail....
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Old 31st July 2013, 08:08 PM   #5
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And what happens whith Lowther in front loaded Horns ? High Frequency drivers are betters choice for that work ?
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Old 1st August 2013, 04:09 AM   #6
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Wow! The page-draw on this forum really sucks today..


Anyway,

Lowthers in horns add problems and reduce problems. The biggest problem is still the whizzer cone, no matter the loading or equalization, you can't "get around" that problem as a full-range driver.


On the other hand you might like it with proper equalization regardless (horns or not).



The only real solution is removing the whizzer and having it cross-over to a good tweeter at a properly low freq.. (..to something like Beyma's heil-type tweeter), with a good steep crossover. (..in fact, if the crossover is low enough and steep enough you wouldn't need to remove the whizzer.)

Still, if you are contemplating that there are better solutions available for less money.
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Old 1st August 2013, 01:17 PM   #7
Face is offline Face  United States
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BMS coaxial drivers are only really good from 450hz and up in the SEOS-24, which is still a feat for a CD. Below 450hz, look into a 15-18" woofer.
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Old 4th August 2013, 10:04 PM   #8
DeonC is offline DeonC  South Africa
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Hi Santiago

If you're going to cross as low at 400Hz - 500Hz, I would suggest you go for at least an 2" compression driver. Have a look at Lynn Olson's 'Beyond the Ariel' thread (the last 20 - 30 pages), and read his comments in this regard. He says he would not a 1" compression driver (on a horn) below 1kHz. Just a thought.

Deon
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Old 4th August 2013, 10:08 PM   #9
Face is offline Face  United States
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BMS coax 1.4" exit on a SEOS 24.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 4th August 2013, 10:25 PM   #10
DeonC is offline DeonC  South Africa
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It is not that they can't do it, it is that they will sound 'strained'. They lack the easy dynamics of the 2" drivers. Read in that thread I mentioned. To use a simple car analogy: you can do 85mph on the highway in a small car with a 1000cc (1-liter) engine, but the engine be screaming its guts out! OTOH, doing 80mph in something like a 2-liter BMW will be a breeze. Sorry for the car analogy, but my point is, just because it can do it does not mean you should. You're too close to the limits of its workable range. YMMV.

Deon
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