Choosing between three mid drivers

[diypass]

i suggest peerless HDS-P830870 Rev2
simply wonderfull

 

[Greebster]

These were on sale until recently at PE for $29 each none the less. Nice driver for sure. Would have suggested it if he wasn't looking for more effeciency, which may still be in the range of what he's looking for.

Peerless 830870 4"

fixed your pdf link

 

[Kev06]

Thanks very much yet again, Greebster - very informative. Theres so much to learn with these things, its really interesting - if I get it even half-way decent I'll probably be quite happy at this rate!

Cheers
Kev

 

[Kev06]

Thanks diypass (and Greebster for the fix). Yeah I'll know better after some work with my SPL meter tonight, but I think 84dB/watt (and 25watts nominal) is probably going to be too low for me. I could double them up, but I gather that can have effects from their interaction and I'd prefer to keep it simple to begin with. Nice looking response, though.

Cheers
Kev

 

[Greebster]

I got fed up with cost VS performance, mostly due to the distortion ratings. Tall order harmonics being reduced is always good, but I question the cost. Does it have to be >4x the price for a driver that is only 10-15dB lower?! Geesh. With that said I'll be heading up the street with the T- poles removed for turning. Add my own faraday shielding modeled with FEMM and rebuild/align to get what I want < yeah extremist. Difference I can get at least 4 of these for the price of one of the lower distortion spec drivers, but without their breakup.

and if I mess up two, no problem I have a dozen to play with

 

[Kev06]

I can only really dream of that sort of customisation at the moment, but I'm still trying to resist the really expensive ones - mostly because I doubt I would get the best from them anyway, and for all i know the whole project could even be an almighty failure.

Cheers
kev

 

[Face]

not sure I would use the Seas ROY woofer

isn't it more a subwoofer with that big surround
I guess its best crossed much lower, and active

SB have a new 12" with low inductance...looks good

Let's not rate drivers just on appearance.

It has distortion better than the regular L26 and almost as low as the W26. And is usable to 400hz+.

The SB 12" is a great driver too, but requires an enclosure about three times larger than the L26ROY.

 

[Toaster]

General concensus of users is that the L26ROY works very well up in to the lower midrange. Haven't used them myself though. Both the Audax HM100Z0 and the Scan 10F are very good and IMHO are better than the HM130C0 at the top of their range. If you can accept the poorer vertical directivity and fiddlier mounting and XO design, the BG Neo 10s are the best sounding midrange I've had here. Not for all applications, but the clarity and lack of 'speakerishness' is exceptional. If it's too much of a pain to use, I'd shade towards the 10F. Wider usable bandwidth and better power handling, but lower sensitivity than the Audax. If you can go up to 450Hz, which the L26 should be fine with, the BG Neo 8S is an excellent and cheaper option- closer in price to the cone drivers mentioned. The '10 is double the price, unfortunately!

 

[Kev06]

Thanks chaps, reassuring about the L26ROY

Toaster, thanks for the suggestions. Not sure if planar drivers would suit this application, but I've heard they're very good so I may have to try them in the future.

Yeah, the SS 10F isn't very sensitive and can't really reach the SPLs I'm after but the HM100Z0 can - and more. However it has an Fs of 250Hz.. should I be nervous about crossing it over only just above that at 300hz or is it okay? The cone excursion seems within Xmax but its starting to roll off around 300hz, though I guess I could go a bit higher if necessary..

Cheers
Kev

 

[Face]

Crossed at 400hz, excursion shouldn't be much of an issue.

What width cabinet are you thinking about? If it's around 12-13", cross right at baffle step, which will be around 350-400hz.

 

[Toaster]

I didn't run the HM100s as low as that- excursion looks rather limited- and I'd be surprised if the 10F didn't go at least as loud, if not louder, than the HM100 in practice. Measurements I've seen suggest the 10F's power handling is good, but 300Hz seems a sensible limit at the bottom end. It is also is fairly sensitive with the 4 Ohm version about the same as the L26ROY. That said, although it probably measures a bit off the pace these days, I do really like the HM100ZO and it is 3db or so more sensitive than the 10F if that's a useful thing in context. Not that BG have got me on commission or anything, but the 8S, or any of the Neo planars, do fine in sealed subenclosures, not just dipoles. Just sayin'...

 

[Face]

You're forgetting to subtract sensitivity for baffle step. When baffle step is considered, either 10F is more efficient than the L26ROY.

 

[Kev06]

Hmm, yes - thanks face & toaster. 300Hz is just a ball-park aim really, so I could go higher to play safe; the same would possibly also help my concerns about the HM100Z0's high Fs.

I've not got as far as the cabinet yet but it is likely to be housing at least a 10" or perhaps 12" woofer, which would be forward facing if I cross over as high as intended, so 12"/13" would be about bang on. Unfortunately though, I've just been doing some SPL measurements and the 10F isn't going to be up to it without doubling them up - and/or unless i greatly exceed their power rating which I believe is only 15w nominal? Though I can't claim to understand baffle step enough to say for sure; without that I'm getting 108dB at 150w for the ROY (my amp's power) and less than 100dB for the 10F at its max 15w

Thanks
kev

 

[Face]

Unfortunately though, I've just been doing some SPL measurements and the 10F isn't going to be up to it without doubling them up - and/or unless i greatly exceed their power rating which I believe is only 15w nominal?

Thanks
kev

The 15W is a different animal and not as well refined. I haven't simmed this yet, but it is more efficient: The Madisound Speaker Store

 

[Kev06]

I've been doing some testing with an SPL meter. It looks like my normal serious listening level is largely in agreement with the THX/studio level, at around 85dB (or so) at my ears. Although the meter says that in my room I need an extra 3db@1m to make up for the distance, and the THX reference level also suggests a further 20dB of headroom, so that would be around 108dB per speaker. I can't really assume the music would always be equally distributed across frequency but probably the drivers would share most loud stuff to a noticeable degree, so they could perhaps each be a couple of dB less - say around 106dB@1m each.

Without exceeding their rated power (if I can trust the specs), the Audax HM100Z0 will reach over 109dB so (aside from its high fs) no probs there at all. The Audax HM130C0 and the SEAS MCA12RC are both about 105dB so 'just about' enough.

Sadly the Scanseek 10F is about 6dB below my target, which is perhaps too much of a short-fall. Their slightly larger 5.25" 15W/8434G00 does reach 105dB though, so thats a possibility - they don't seem to say how off axis their chart lines are, but assuming something normal then it'd perhaps be acceptable if I toed them in. One of their 4" illuminators (the 12MU/4731T00) will get to 108dB and has a very nice flat looking response, but its extremely expensive... Maybe I'm wrong to be expecting the mid to be cheaper than the bass though; it could perhaps be said that its the most important range and is no less stretched in range..

At least thats how it seems to me; its entirely possible that I've messed up somewhere though..

Cheers
Kev

 

[tinitus]

just to make sure you know the 'alternative'..... a proven and known design

it might get very difficult if you have no experience or access to measurement gear

DIY Loudspeakers

 

[Kev06]

The 15W is a different animal and not as well refined. I haven't simmed this yet, but it is more efficient: The Madisound Speaker Store

maybe I've got the wromg model then; that link to the 15m does indeed look very different. I'll have to look more carefully - though ultimately it'll be influenced by what I can get here I suppose.

Thanks
Kev

 

[Kev06]

Tinitus, thanks for the link - a very interesting looking site; I'll have to spend some time looking it over.

Cheers
Kev

 

[wintermute]

That all encompassing distortion peak @600Hz is something I'd be looking into, otherwise nothing else glaring at me. Well would like to see less 3rd between 1-2k, but doubt it would be detrimental to the listening experience.

Thanks Greebster, I'll PM to not take the thread off topic

Tony.

 

[Kev06]

The 15W is a different animal and not as well refined. I haven't simmed this yet, but it is more efficient: The Madisound Speaker Store

Its a pity its not to the same standard; it'll reach a similar SPL to the HM100Z0 (i.e. more than I need) and has a much lower Fs; pretty cheap too.

I think I'm probably going to compromise on the diameter to get the sort of SPL vs quality vs price I was wanting, maybe I could consider crossing-over slightly lower to the tweeter - which isn't chosen yet.

So, I've been looking at the other drivers I can get; the Audax HM130Z0 5.25" looks most interesting - I hadn't realised the 'Z0' aerogel version is so different to the 'C0' carbon-fibre one that I'd short listed. The HM130Z0 easily gets me the SPL I want, has a low enough Fs and has at least a reasonable off axis performance for a 5.25". It seems to have a number of fans too, so I'm quite interested in this one - any thoughts?

Cheers
Kev