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Old 9th August 2013, 07:38 AM   #151
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Yes it does seem to be a bundle of compromises, so settling on my main criteria sounds like a very good idea; those you list do seem to describe what I'm after

Were I to have unlimited funds this would be a very different project! Though even then i realise not an answer in itself. But I guess within reason the budget is at least slightly under my control; I won't be able to afford anything exotic but given the total cost of all this, including all the amps and power supplies, I'd be willing to pay somewhat more for drivers than I'd originally intended 'if' they were more suitable in ways that increased my chances of success. So the revelator mids aren't out of the question, but (for example) spending 300 on each tweeter probably would be.

Cheers
kev

Last edited by Kev06; 9th August 2013 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 9th August 2013, 08:19 AM   #152
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Just to report a bit on further SPL measurements that i've been making. I've now had my SPL meter at my side for a number of evenings and its been quite interesting. In particular I've been impressed by the differences in music style.

In particular, I was listening to a male acapella group last night and the peaks are much higher and more substancial than many other types of music that I've compared. Of course, I was expecting this type of music/vocals to have a bigger crest factor, but what i wasn't expecting was for the peaks to be so meaty in an absolute SPL sense. I guess this is probably because the average SPL is fairly low so my perception leads me to play it at a highish volume - which then makes the peakier sections really quite loud. It didn't seem abnormally or unrealistically loud though; I could easily imagine they were really stood there singing live.

The frequencies involved in voices would be particularly relavent to the mid driver, and presumably the bass driver wouldn't be sharing the power very much in this case either, which may blow another theory of mine out of the window. So whilst I'm still happy that the mid doesn't need to sustain the power needed for these peak SPLs, it certainly needs to be able to reach them effortlessly and more frequently than I'd perhaps imagined. Sadly I doubt the needle on my meter is capable of describing the true peak even on its fast setting, but there were sections where it was hovering up towards 100dB really quite a lot, even though the average SPL seemed quite normal.

Cheers
kev
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Old 9th August 2013, 11:01 AM   #153
Toaster is offline Toaster  United Kingdom
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Some excellent advice from jReave. The B&G 8S is the only one of the Neo range I haven't heard, but based on my experience with the 3, 8 (non S version) and the 10 it has the potential to be your best sounding option. I would suggest you have a word with Meniscus Audio in America about the 8S, either with the Neo 3 tweeter or possibly in combination with the CSS RT1 ribbon tweeter, ideally the square faceplate version to minimise the distance between the mid and tweeter diaphrams to give you the widest range of crossover options. I've found Meniscus to be unfailingly pleasant and helpful and their shipping costs to the UK very reasonable. Another very strong candidate for you is the Kairos kit, which uses the SB Sartori drivers in what looks like an excellent design from an experienced designer. The enclosures for the L26s could either be used as stands or as seperate stereo subs. Without spending quite a bit more money- if then- I doubt you could do better than these options in a relatively conventional three-way design.
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Old 9th August 2013, 12:08 PM   #154
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Thanks very much for the additional suggestions; I'll have a look into them!

TBH I don't know much about the planar and ribbon type transducers and have somewhat shied away from them; I have a (possibly unfounded) belief that their vertical dispersion may be rather too limited for me and also had assumed shipping/import costs and effort would be a deal breaker, but maybe not. Certainly its something i should look into rather than just guessing or ignoring!

The Kairos kit looks interesting too; its not quite what i wanted to build 'as is', but it could certainly give me some ideas.

Cheers
kev
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Old 9th August 2013, 10:09 PM   #155
todd is offline todd  United States
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Hey man, I just wanted to give you some words of encouragement. All 3 of those drivers you've picked, the 2 audax and the 10F are *excellent* drivers and not ridiculously expensive either. I doubt you'll end up with a bad sounding speaker with any one of the three so don't worry about it too much. All three have excellent disperson and while the 5" is naturally a tad less than the two 4's I doubt you'll REALLY notice that much of a difference after the whole thing is said and done. The speaker design you've chosen, a 3 way with dedicated mid is a classic, it's a good one, and it's been around pretty much since the beginning of time audio-wise for a reason.

The crossover and cabinets are likely going to be the biggest hurdles to conquer. In my experience it's the cabinets that are the hardest part by far!!

What I'm trying to say is, I think it'll be best to just pick the "front runner" whatever it is at this point and move on from there and forget about this $80 midrange versus that $90 one, it's all going to come out in the wash. I suppose if it were me I'd go for the HM100Z0 because I've used audax in the past and been very impressed and I think the aerogel is a really neat material. I also happen to think the high freq is harder to get right than the low personally and I'd rather have a leg up on the high end and some more room to "play" up there. That said, the scanspeak is an excellent choice as well, again all three will leave you a wide range of options and paths to take. I like the idea of the 3 seperate cabinets, a great way to go for testing and experimenting at the beginning and it'll make building them a lot easier.

As far as choosing the midrange first or the tweeter or WHATEVER, hey, you've gotta start somewhere right! You get something wrong, you can always change it later right? You're on a good path, and we're all watching the thread with interest, cheers!
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Old 10th August 2013, 06:20 AM   #156
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echoing the last post here. Havent heard any of the drivers but I too have had great experiences with Audax HDA.
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Old 10th August 2013, 08:46 AM   #157
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Thanks for the encouragement chaps

And thanks for the dose of realism too; theres a tendency to be attracted by ever more expensive drivers, but some are way over the top for me at my stage and on my budget! With the individual amps etc this project will be costing hundreds so I won't skimp a few notes on the mid driver if it gets me what i want, but beyond that I should certainly keep a cap on it.

Its been interesting to see how price isn't necessarily a good guide actually, even within the decent brands, so I think I'm probably going to ignore it for the mid driver and just look at what meets my criteria best, though 'within reason' as I'd start to get twitchy if they looked like costing noticeably more than the bass drivers.

Cheers
Kev

Last edited by Kev06; 10th August 2013 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 10th August 2013, 10:02 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post

but you can consider every bit of not used Xmax to be wasted energy
Only with overhung drivers.
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Old 10th August 2013, 10:26 PM   #159
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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hmm, with underhung, maybe less .... there its already wasted to begin with
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