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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 20th July 2013, 11:01 PM   #21
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Recent simplifications in using digital crossovers and equalization have made small'ish volume sealed bass cabinets a popular choice. Sealed box woofers offer lower phase and group delay variations. 20Hz SEALED: 15" woofer in 3ft^3 18" woofer in 4 ft^3

The December 1995 Stereo Review, p. 144 article ‘A Measure of Bass Quality' states that the subjective quality of bass reproduction (its ‘quickness’ and ‘detailed texture’) is very closely associated with group delay. Systems that exhibit lower group delay have a subjectively higher quality level of bass reproduction.

Data shows that sealed systems have consistently lower group delay (10 milliseconds or less in the low bass range), compared to vented or bandpass systems, which can exceed 20 milliseconds of group delay in the bass range. Psychoacoustic studies like Blauert&Laws have shown that vented bass system group delays are detectable at low bass frequencies.

Blauert & Laws May 1978 "Group Delay Distortions in Electroacoustical Systems"
Group Delay Frequency Threshold of Audible Detection
20 Hz 20 ms
50 Hz 8 ms
500 Hz 3.2 ms
1 kHz 2 ms
2 kHz 1 ms
4 kHz 1.5 ms
8 kHz 2 ms
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File Type: jpg Phase.jpg (129.5 KB, 327 views)
File Type: jpg GroupDelay.jpg (103.7 KB, 319 views)
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Old 21st July 2013, 12:50 AM   #22
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EQing the bass up to match the vented response would just re-introduce the group delay, unless you're using linear phase EQ, yes? Ending up with similar group delay, but lower efficiency with higher distortion and compression doesn't sound so great.
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Old 21st July 2013, 01:10 AM   #23
Loren42 is offline Loren42  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumptruck View Post
Two 15" in here:

Click the image to open in full size.
It looks like it ate them!
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Old 21st July 2013, 02:41 AM   #24
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Ill try and be clear....I design and make furniture, I wish to, in the the coming years design and make hi-end hi fi, I really want to specialise in making beautiful horn speakers.

I have started a few threads on this, and sold a couple of pairs of small turned JMLC horns.

Im trying to design a range of products that are somewhat interchangeable.

The ideas being a few bass cabinets, 15", 2x10" 2x8"

And a few horn configurations/profiles.

I was pretty much dead set on having (for my home set up) a 2" compressions driver with some horn profile, and 2x10" drivers, as a compromise between cabinet size, efficiency etc....

After reading some more about Dr Earl Geddes and his approach (and have had a absolutely no baffle, just perched on a spike 15" with an awesome few octaves) spurred me again to look at 15" and large baffles.

Most seem incredibly ugly, yes big speakers need big boxes, but not many are done with little finesse. Geddes speakers, (I havent heard them) with all the reviews, and positive praise, to my tastes are not beautiful works of art, and looks like incongruous big PA like boxes.

So I though I would try and make a thread dedicated to how to integrate large woofers with a modicum of style, with proportions to the boxes or horns on top, the space around, and how they integrate with the other components around them.

My goal is inspiration for the diy builder, looking to build something similar, but doesn't want two 100L square MDF subs taking up half there lounge.

I look forward to seeing some more...
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Old 21st July 2013, 05:31 AM   #25
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That Hi-Vi F10 is terrific ! Such big fat box for just 89 dB ?
( again ...terrific ! )
Terrific from terror.
BTW I have one system with a 15'' shown in the DIY Pic section.
It plays OB like the mid associated.
Still raising money for sub & earning space.
For subwoofer loudness playing level at home I would need just my usual 20-40 W
amplifier...well, if I use much powerful amplifiers and higher X-max subs like those
from Car...but those are often done with 2+2 Ω coils, so no big deal .
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Old 21st July 2013, 05:36 AM   #26
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The speakers that Dumptruck posted and are believed to be made by Jadis, remind me
of the Magico. The head of Magico believes that high efficiency at home is the way to go.

Same horrendous sight are some speakers posted before, talking about big JBLs with a retro ( styled ) horn as a midrange, and the classic tweeter with lens above the woofer.

Nice horror thread !
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Old 21st July 2013, 07:56 AM   #27
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Fostex FW800HS 31.5" Super-Bass
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Old 21st July 2013, 08:47 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Studio Au View Post
I think 10" again, but huge bass horn enclosures.
Click the image to open in full size.
The Basshorns of AvantgardeAcoustics work with two 12" neodym drivers and with active electronics that deliver 250 watt per driver for one of that six shown units.
So here are working 12 12"Drivers and a total of 3000 Watts!
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Old 21st July 2013, 10:44 AM   #29
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Revel Rythm2 18" subwoofer

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Old 21st July 2013, 07:24 PM   #30
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JBL 18" 2245 8cuft.
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