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Old 12th July 2013, 07:47 PM   #21
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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In my experience, once a compression driver on a horn or waveguide has been properly EQ'd, they are all basically the same if they have the same size diaphragm and voice coil. I know that this is blasphemy around here, but it is my experience and I have seen nothing that indicates that this is not correct, only subjective claims to the contrary. Those, of course, being less than ideal evidence of anything.
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Old 12th July 2013, 08:01 PM   #22
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
In my experience, once a compression driver on a horn or waveguide has been properly EQ'd, they are all basically the same if they have the same size diaphragm and voice coil. I know that this is blasphemy around here, but it is my experience and I have seen nothing that indicates that this is not correct, only subjective claims to the contrary. Those, of course, being less than ideal evidence of anything.
Is it also your experience that different diaphragm materials will not matter once all EQ'ed the same? I have yet to try such close enough comparisons, though it should be easy with the miniDSP.

IG
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Old 12th July 2013, 09:54 PM   #23
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Not a lot of experience with different materials, but suffice it to say the differences are going to be mostly above 10 kHz where I cannot see it making much audible difference on music.
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Old 13th July 2013, 03:45 AM   #24
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
In my experience, once a compression driver on a horn or waveguide has been properly EQ'd, they are all basically the same if they have the same size diaphragm and voice coil.
I take this to suggest they'll be free of excess phase once fixed. Suppose one wanted to locate internal reflections, the potential for IMD, breakup vs VC distortion, for finer adjustments etc., can this be done simply but reliably?
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Old 13th July 2013, 03:34 PM   #25
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Alan

The real question is are these things audibly important?

Excess phase? Do you mean group delay? I would not expect much differences here from the drivers.

Internal reflections? These get EQ'd out so they aren't a factor.

IMD? I don't believe that nonlinear distortion is a factor.

breakup vs VC distortion? I am not sure what that is so I cannot comment.

In my studies of compression drivers with B&C we found that the only significant audible differences between drivers was in frequency response, which could be corrected with EQ.
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Old 13th July 2013, 09:06 PM   #26
gtb is offline gtb  France
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I tried the DE250 on 4 waveguides :
- RCF H100
- QSC 152i
- Pyle PH612 (econowave)
- SEOS-12

Each time, I got hash sounding on a lot of material, especialy female voices. In fact, it's not a matter of taste but a matter of pain : it hurts my ears. So I tried to lower the response above 10kHz (was flat before). It seems to resolve my problem : less pain.

So I guess the problem comes from the DE250 that is harsh sounding somewhere above 10kHz. I don't know about the BMS compressions. Perhaps I will give them a try.
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Old 13th July 2013, 09:31 PM   #27
Face is offline Face  United States
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If the DE250 on a SEOS-12 is harsh, something is definitely amiss.
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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Old 13th July 2013, 10:12 PM   #28
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If the DE250 on a SEOS-12 is harsh, something is definitely amiss.
I'll know soon enough.
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Old 14th July 2013, 01:31 AM   #29
macsaif is offline macsaif  Slovakia
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Gtb
which waveguide you prefer from the 4 mentiomed?
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Old 14th July 2013, 03:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
In my experience, once a compression driver on a horn or waveguide has been properly EQ'd, they are all basically the same if they have the same size diaphragm and voice coil. I know that this is blasphemy around here, but it is my experience and I have seen nothing that indicates that this is not correct, only subjective claims to the contrary. Those, of course, being less than ideal evidence of anything.
So much for the O.S.W.G. arguments in your papers, you just equalized them “all” away.

Of course this philosophy works well in a setting where it is claimed that the distortion produced cannot be heard even though it most certainly exists and is measurable.

If Be is used to make the diaphragm of a given size it will be acoustically smaller than its plastic, aluminum or titanium counterparts; and because of this, it will certainly perform differently as the onset of breakup modes and mass roll-off will occur at higher frequencies whether we choose to hear them or not.

Regards,

WHG

Last edited by whgeiger; 14th July 2013 at 03:44 AM.
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