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Old 11th July 2013, 11:20 PM   #11
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I can hear 20k just fine.
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Old 11th July 2013, 11:28 PM   #12
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Everyone can detect 20 kHz if it is played loud enough. That doesn't mean anything. The fact is that 20 kHz does not propagate very far because of air absorption, so its presence in nature is minimal and its importance to music is negligible.
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Old 12th July 2013, 01:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
I can hear 20k just fine.
Define 'fine' as to be able to perceive the tone within a full spectrum environement of equal levels would be a feat of comic book heroes and villians. Otherwise, credibility tends to get banged up a little bit, and a bit harder to recover.

Now if your definition of fine was in a silent environment with a tone burst of above ambient speech, I'd say that would be fine.....unusual for a male human above the age of 35....but still fine. Of practical use when determining the operational bandwidth of a speaker.....not so much.
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Old 12th July 2013, 02:05 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Everyone can detect 20 kHz if it is played loud enough. The fact is that 20 kHz does not propagate very far because of air absorption so its presence in nature is minimal and its importance to music is negligible.
Earl,

I now find the octave of music from 20-40Hz of far more importance than the octave from 10- 20 kHz, but when I was younger and could hear HF well, I would have given the opposite response.

Of course, when we were young, there was far less recorded information in either octave, digital allows response from a few Hz to 20,000 kHz with no problems, and examining most any pop spectrograph will show content from 20-20kHz.
Listening at a few meters, HF air absorption is not an issue, and everyone that seems to minimize HF importance in music also seems to have little HF hearing response .

If I attempted to get 20 kHz loud enough to hear it, it would cause permanent hearing damage, while my 56 year old girlfriend requires no boost at all, she can hear 20 kHz at a lower SPL than I hear 8 kHz.
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Old 12th July 2013, 02:18 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Earl,

I now find the octave of music from 20-40Hz of far more importance than the octave from 10- 20 kHz, but when I was younger and could hear HF well, I would have given the opposite response.

Of course, when we were young, there was far less recorded information in either octave, digital allows response from a few Hz to 20,000 kHz with no problems, and examining most any pop spectrograph will show content from 20-20kHz.
Listening at a few meters, HF air absorption is not an issue, and everyone that seems to minimize HF importance in music also seems to have little HF hearing response .

If I attempted to get 20 kHz loud enough to hear it, it would cause permanent hearing damage, while my 56 year old girlfriend requires no boost at all, she can hear 20 kHz at a lower SPL than I hear 8 kHz.
Which explains why she can talk to the wall and then get angry when you can't hear her! Lol..........
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Old 12th July 2013, 04:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post
Define 'fine' as to be able to perceive the tone within a full spectrum environement of equal levels would be a feat of comic book heroes and villians. Otherwise, credibility tends to get banged up a little bit, and a bit harder to recover.

Now if your definition of fine was in a silent environment with a tone burst of above ambient speech, I'd say that would be fine.....unusual for a male human above the age of 35....but still fine. Of practical use when determining the operational bandwidth of a speaker.....not so much.
I boost or cut 20K on my 1/3 octave EQ, I can hear it on music. I gather that it isn't musically significant to some. As far as that making me less credible, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 12th July 2013, 04:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Everyone can detect 20 kHz if it is played loud enough. That doesn't mean anything. The fact is that 20 kHz does not propagate very far because of air absorption, so its presence in nature is minimal and its importance to music is negligible.
I ordered the DE250. If I dont like it, I'll get the BMS. I suspect I'll like the 250 based on your input.
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Old 12th July 2013, 04:41 PM   #18
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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I have yet to hear the DE250, but would like to sometimes. I do own both BMS 4550 and 4540ND, very good drivers.

IG
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Old 12th July 2013, 05:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by IG81 View Post
I have yet to hear the DE250, but would like to sometimes. I do own both BMS 4550 and 4540ND, very good drivers.

IG
Where are you located? If in the US, how much was it in total cost to get them?
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Old 12th July 2013, 06:40 PM   #20
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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Originally Posted by SpinMonster View Post
Where are you located? If in the US, how much was it in total cost to get them?
I'm in Québec, Canada and got them from Assistance Audio. As with all things cross-border, shipping was a b**ch, but I got smart and signed up for a border PO box before I got my second pair. It should be much cheaper for you already in the US. Since then, Q-Components has started carrying B&C as well as Radian products and the DE250 is very well priced for us Canadians. It might come down to a coin toss whether I get DE250 or 475PB next time I need such a driver.

USspeaker also has BMS, so check them out to compare shipping etc... , but I prefer to encourage Jack at Assistance Audio. Maybe one could also get BMS 4550 through Yorkville's parts service, it's what's used on the U15 Unity horn IIRC.

IG

Last edited by IG81; 12th July 2013 at 06:46 PM.
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