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Old 8th July 2013, 12:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirchhoff View Post
There are some "hi fi" manufacturers that insist that "you shalt not have tone controls" on your pre-amp. It makes them more "pure" in their view. How does this position stand vs. listening volume & room tonal response?
If you can't adjust it to your likes, compensating for room and position how good will it really sound to YOU?

That's the bottom line.
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Old 8th July 2013, 01:20 AM   #12
Pano is online now Pano  United States
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I remember (I think) when the whole disapproval of tone controls started. IIRC, it was for good reasons. A lot of what was being put into amps and record players of the time was junky. Ditto all the switches and selectors and options. When guys started pulling them out, they found certain improvements in the sound. Less junk in the signal path = less junk in the sound. And so a movement was born.

A well designed, well built tone control is a handy tool. My player software has one built in, if I choose to use it. I can set a certain level as flat (e.g. 90% volume) and then everything below that will have a loudness curve add progressively to it. Not perfect, but much better than the old days.
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Old 8th July 2013, 01:47 AM   #13
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I think it was 1990. By that time the market was completely dominated by silver painted plastic boxes. With 100% junk inside. Removing some junk was leaving less junk inside, but whatever was left was still junk.
So the answer from "the industry" was to remove the junk that you would have removed anyway. Pretty lucrative, as this reduced their costs. Of course, you didn't get any better product but hey it was now "pure" with no tone controls to stay in the way of your aural zen. Time to increase the markup a little bit.
And these days they wonder why no one takes them seriously anymore.
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Old 8th July 2013, 03:00 AM   #14
Pano is online now Pano  United States
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Could be it hit the mass market in 1990. I remember it in the fringe from the late 70s, early 80s. It may predate that. I was thinking back in the days of aging tube gear that young guys could pull part and tinker with to make improvements. Sorry for the O.T.

Kev, if you have a way to measure, that will help greatly to tune your system and your ear.
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Old 8th July 2013, 04:44 AM   #15
mitchba is offline mitchba  Canada
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A slight improvement on the B&K curve (which I have used for years in recording/mixing studios and home listening) can be found here, which yields a perceptually flat frequency response: Acourate Digital Room and Loudspeaker Correction Software Walkthrough

Best regards, Mitch
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Old 8th July 2013, 07:12 AM   #16
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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More interesting stuff; perhaps I'll look in more detail at adjustable EQ. Initially I was wanting to check what sort of inherent response to design for; that will give me the base line but clearly its not going to be necessarily one fixed or simple response for all music (or all people). Perhaps I'll build in some eq to keep things reasonably flat at the low end. I'm also thinking of a tri-amped active setup so would have the opportunity to tweak the low/mid/high responses and crossover points separately. But perhaps the easiest thing to begin with would be to play with the graphic equaliser and compare measurements with my preferences.

Mitch, thanks for the link; I'd heard of the BK curve (and suspect it may be something I'd like), but that link looks a lot more bespoke.

Yes I've currently got an amp without tone controls. To be honest I think the philosphy is flawed because (as mentioned in this thread) for the natural response to be the best you would need standardisation during the recording/production stages and to be listening at identical volumes in an identical room with speakers that also have a suitable response. As thats not the case, I find some form of adjustment advantageous, and I also don't like the manufacturer prescribing to me what my personal taste should be. Though frankly having had tone controls in the past they can make a hash of those too, so it may be better to forgo them anyway and use something a bit better.

Cheers
kev

Last edited by Kev06; 8th July 2013 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 8th July 2013, 08:07 AM   #17
markusA is offline markusA  Sweden
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As long as the speaker construction is sound and well thought through a good EQ should be able to iron out most little kinks.
I have a similar thread of my own from a while back and the results from that discussion was not to aim for a flat curve in the design.
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Old 8th July 2013, 09:25 AM   #18
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Thanks, could be useful. Its now looking like I'll probably be using eq of some sort to tweak things, so I guess that I could plan for it to be used fairly seriously (with decent reserves of power/excursion etc) - should let me concentrate on getting a mechanically smooth response and roll off fromn the speakers, knowing the eq will be able to correct it.

Cheers
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