SEAS L26 ROY or alternative in 3-way?

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I'm planning to build some sealed-enclosure 3-way active speakers. I wasn't intending to have a subwoofer but will occasionally be using the system for HT; so good performance with low bass would be beneficial, provided that it doesn't noticably compromise things for music.

In another thread it was suggested that the 10" seas L26 ROY subwoofer driver is unusually linear and distortion free, and so can actually make a good bass driver for a 3-way 'if' crossed over reasonably low. I'm wondering, is the L26 ROY out on its own in this respect, or are there any other recomendations for drivers that will go low and yet stay nicely clean up to a lowish x-over with mid-range?

I'm also wondering if perhaps two more normal bass drivers (and so less excursion per driver) may be the way to go if they have a low enough fs - but they'd have to be much cheaper if I'm going to need two of them per speaker.

Cheers
kev
 
I guess that I'm the one who mentioned that. I use it up to 200Hz LR4 in a active 4-way. Sound is good!

A discussion at HTG http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?34253-Seas-L26ROY - high extension, low distortion, high efficiency also suitable for a passive 3-way.

Mr. Håvard Sollien, R&D Engineer at SEAS, says "Having worked extensively in the development of this driver, I am very pleased with the result and I am confident the customers will feel the same. The unique features of this driver make it a versatile choice for powered subwoofers – or even passive 3 way designs."

Quite similar Dayton RS265HO is used in some designs. Daytons are difficult to get here in Europe.

Actually, I think that a sigle 10" is too little for a SUBwoofer! Distortion rises inevitably with huge cone movement even in a sealed box. But it is decent as a pair.
 
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Many thanks! Yes IIRC it was indeed you that inspired this :)

I'm really keen on the idea; in addition to occasional HT use I would like quite a wide mid-range with a fairly low crossover, so it seems to make sense to take advantage of that and have a bass/sub driver with a lower range.

I've been unable to find anything as well recommended as the L26ROY for this sort of use, and that quote is yet more encouragement, so I've more or less decided to go with it, but thought I'd better ask around before hitting 'buy'.

I'll have a pair of them (left and right), and probably shouldn't need to drive them beyond xmax even at quite high volume peaks. I'm not intending any electronic extension/equalisation and they'll just be used for living room type SPLs, so a couple of 10" drivers should be fine for me.

Thanks again!
Kev
 
Excellent, many thanks.

Thats the sort of thing i was wondering about, really - it seems hard to beat the L26ROY like-for-like, but maybe a bigger driver and/or two drivers with correspondingly lower excursion could possibly have similarly good performance. By doubling up, there would also seem to be benefits in power requirements, depending on the sensitivities.

I'll have a play around with the parameters in winISD and see how these things compare.

EDIT: impressive looking speakers and nice website! I'll definitely be looking through it in more detail.

Cheers
kev
 
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Yeah, its unfortunate but quite a lot of the drivers (and other things) mentioned on these forums are more costly to get here so (if you can get them at all) they're competing in a different price bracket. I've not found a good source of Dayton yet, but I'll seek around and see what I can find.

Cheers
kev
 
There are several retailers of Dayton over here. But you can't trust their websites' info of availability. I had to wait more than 4 months to get a pair of 15" Dayton that were said to be in stock at EuropeAudio. And all the time the website said that they are on stock!

SEAS ROY is 175€+cargo over here, Dayton RSS265 list price is almost same. US prices are reasonable but overseas cargo, VAT and duty double this price! Initially I wanted to buy DaytonRSS! There is an offer at Europeaudio!

Double SLS10 or single SLS12 means a huge box! ROY is ok in 20 -30L sealed. When going active sensitivity is not a problem.
 
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I'm using the L26ROY as full-range driver in a bass guitar cabinet. It works very well, even though the sensitivity is a bit low, but that is easy to overcome with enough amp power.

I'm also using it for subwoofers in my home theater, I have eight of them in 25 liter closed boxes. It sounds very good, clean, undistorted and with great impact.

It's a very good driver indeed. :)
 
"It's a very good driver indeed"

Yep, my nearfield measurement in a 60 liter cabinet ( a too big protocab), downfire. Measured with mic on the floor at the edge of cabinet. a 25liter is ideal, Q=0.7. The motor is very strong and when driven without a coil, cap etc with a Dclass amplifier with DF around 2000 - a beast for it's size! :deer:

I recommend a sealed cab, place near the floor and trust on floor gain! No eq needed!
 

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Thanks chaps, most helpful. Having looked around some more I still can't find any other low frequency 10" drivers (easily available here) that have such positive comments about their abilities up to mid-Xover type frequencies. I see some of the Morel subs have also been used like this but they're overkill for my needs. And Juhazi, that plot of the L26 ROY is amazing, I've seen it in one of your other posts and not seen anything comparable for other drivers; Am I right in thinking the SPL chart is with the driver in 60L sealed and with Room Gain but no eq?

So the only thing that seems left to check before going for the ROY is how doubling up to two more normal 8" Drivers would compare. I'd imagine smaller cones with less excursion would make it easier for the manufacturers to control cone distortion/break up so it seems worth considering.

I've run a couple of SB acoustics and scanspeak 8" drivers through WinISD and by doubling up I can get enough SPL within more modest excursion limits, and with less powerful drivers. Even then though, the total price isn't especially different to the ROY though, so it may not be saving anything.

The total volume needed is also greater in the pairs I've tried, which isn't necessarily a problem (within reason) and I guess could help cone distortion of more delicate drivers, but unless it gains me anything then smaller would be better. I have also toyed with the idea of using an enclosure large enough to essentially count as an Infinate Baffle; I've not decided yet (its just an idea) but it would be much more achievable with a driver of low VAS and high excursion.

Thanks again
Kev
 
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Well I plotted some drivers, all just with sealed enclosures of Qtc=0.7 just to compare. A couple of the drivers are what have been recomended and I chose two 8" ones that looked promising just to see how they match up. Working from higher to lower frequency drop-off, the:
# White line is the 10" SEAS L26ROY in 20L @ 65w - £145
# Blue Line is 2x SB acoustics 8" SB23NRX45-8 in a total of 80L @ 23w - total of £130
# Red Line is 2x Peerless 8" SLS 830667 in a total of 90L @ 35W - total of £110
# Yellow Line is the SB acoustics 12" SB34SWNRX-S75 in 47L @ 65W - £135
# Pink line is the 12" Peerless SLS-315 830669 in 150L @ 30W- £80
(the ones that drop off at higher frequencies have the advanced parameters entered, the ones with flat response just have the standard ones, so ignore the higher drop-off, it isn't comparable)

So, all are within X-max for the respective drivers at the SPLs plotted, some 'well' within. Prices are 'fairly' similar except the peerless driver (suggested above) which is usefully cheaper - though it also has the biggest enclosure requirements. The 12" drivers clearly perform well and go usefully low. But it seems less likely for a 12" to have as smooth an upper frequency response as the smaller and very rigid-coned L26 ROY, so without lots of support for that I'd be nervous of using them in my application. The two 8" drivers seem pretty comparable (when paired) with the L26ROY, the differences seem mainly that they need a much larger (total) enclosure than the single ROY (and the ROY needs more power, but thats not really an issue for me). Being only 8" I'd have reasonable confidence in their distortion being low up to the midrange x-over point. There are certainly other 8" ones I could try simulating too, these are just to get a feel for the differences.

Probably what may swing it is the x-max. There's not a massive difference between the drivers in the cone excursions, but the two 8" drivers are close to their X-max at the SPLs plotted, whilst the ROY is barely half way along its linear travel - which should presumably mean its going to be pretty untroubled in terms of distortion. It will also give me more scope with the volume knob; I've plotted this for around 105dB which i'd imagine would be enough, but as an upper limit theres no harm in having a bit of headroom, possibly even some gentle eq if I later feel the need after building it.

Do these conclusions seem reasonable?

Thanks
kev
 

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You can run the 12" SLS in a much smaller box with minimal negative effect, and if you plan on incorporating EQ you can go extremely small and simply EQ to taste. The larger box simply preserves the drivers efficiency on the low end of its response. Two SLS in 150 L with a little EQ (or even without) would really have no competition. You have to remember the "ideal" Q/curve dosent really mean much once you place the woofers in a room. The range below around 200hz is completely dominated by the room.
 
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Interesting, thanks, I'll have to look at room gain etc - I wasn't really wanting to use EQ, but was thinking it may be nice if the driver could take it should I later decide it would help. I don't mind a large enclosure if it gains in sound quality, but 150L is quite large for a tower (yet quite small to take any exotic measures over), so smaller would indeed be helpful.

Do you (or anyone else) know how well the 12" SLS performs up around say 300hz or so? The official response curves show it going well on to several hundred herts or more, but I don't know how this compares to distortion/cone-breakup in real life.

Cheers
Kev
 
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Great thanks! for some reason I'd thought it was a sub, but I'm getting confused with the long throw range.

Okay then thats two on the short list: the SLS-315 830669 and the L26 ROY. They're pretty different in some ways so hopefully one or the other will turn out to match all the other requirements better, rather than becoming a dilemma.

Cheers
Kev
 
I built these using the L26ROY up to 200hz LR8 in a 30L closed box, extending the freq. response to f3= 35hz with a LT (fully active class D with dsp). My considderations were exactly the same as yours: I wanted a woofer that could double as a sub for HT use. The L26ROY proved to be an ideal driver for this type of application. It's very musical and does not mind a meteorite impact or two either.:)
 
Thanks again chaps!

Swifty, thats a mighty fine looking speaker build! It reminds me just how big even a 10" driver is too... I think perhaps if I plan to hold eq in reserve rather than 'necessarily' use it, then possibly it would be wise to go for a driver with modest volume requirements.

Mondogenerator, thats one I've not run across so far, but it does seem to be available here so I'll have a look into it - many thanks for the suggestion.

Cheers
Kev
 
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