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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 15th June 2013, 04:37 AM   #11
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by gassit View Post

I knew that someone from the US would chime in once I mentioned sub-woofers.

Whew! I'll have no trouble building the subs but I'm not so sure about the electronics.



If it's only one person listening, then 1 sub in the near-field (directly) behind your listening position often works very well. It could even be an H frame open baffle or a Ripole with enough eq. and a steep low-pass filter. (..search for more information on H frames and Ripoles.)

A minidsp & mic (along with RoomEQWizard) can handle the freq. response tailoring with time-delay.

If it's for multiple listeners, then it should be 3 or more subs (distributed throughout the room a'la Geddes.
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Old 15th June 2013, 05:39 AM   #12
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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My heart always sinks when I hear people mention Doppler distortion in loudspeakers...

There is NO SUCH THING!

We all know what ambulances sound like when they are approaching or departing, the tone changes, but this has nothing to do with linear systems.

The whole basis of the Fourier Transform is that the sine waves do not interact.

I WOULD buy an explanation that excessive bass takes a loudspeaker outside its linear area and causes INTERMODULATION between frequencies.

As for more bass from a two-way like the EPOS ES 14, well you really need a three way for a bigger room if you want it to go loud without distortion. That's the simple physics of it!
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Last edited by system7; 15th June 2013 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 15th June 2013, 07:28 AM   #13
gassit is offline gassit  Australia
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There seems to be definite like for sub-woofers up there in the States and and a similar degree of dislike in the UK.

Here in Australia, we like 'em all, if it gets the job done.

Btw system7, do you have a physics background? As a brat, I loved physics (Harry Messel and Dr. Julius Sumner Miller were my idols), but didn't have the brains to follow through.
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Old 15th June 2013, 08:11 AM   #14
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I used to run a pair of ES14's with a Rel Strata 3. If you have decent room without strong nodes in the 20-100hz region you'll be fine with a single sub. If your room is more tricky try two stubs.
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Old 15th June 2013, 11:38 AM   #15
gassit is offline gassit  Australia
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sq225917,

Looks good, but financial constraints dictate that I'll have to make one rather than buy it.

But thank you anyway.
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Old 15th June 2013, 05:43 PM   #16
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by gassit View Post
There seems to be definite like for sub-woofers up there in the States and and a similar degree of dislike in the UK.

Here in Australia, we like 'em all, if it gets the job done.
Some see subs a a way to extend the response, and others see it as a way to deal with a room. The subs are sometimes smaller than the mains.
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Old 15th June 2013, 06:14 PM   #17
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Indeed, a Physics and Telecoms background. I like THIS sort of popular science:

Demystifying the Higgs Boson with Leonard Susskind - YouTube

Top man in the field, Prof. Leonard Susskind.

What strikes me about the Epos ES14 is actually the hideously rough first order filter. A mere 2.2uF on the metal tweet and nothing at all on the bass IIRC. Yeah, I know, it's meant to be musical, but that sort of thing always sounded harsh to me...

If I had this speaker, I'd be trying different tweeters and higher order treble filters. But phase might be a pig to line up, and I would need to have a good think about it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Epos_ES14.JPG (41.2 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg Epos_ES14_FR.JPG (30.6 KB, 69 views)
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Old 15th June 2013, 07:57 PM   #18
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What strikes is that you obviously haven't heard a pair.

The cap is there to protect the tweeter nothing more. Both the tweeter and the mid bass were in-house designed custom drivers whose transfer function was built into the drivers via their physical band electrical characteristics. The handover between the two drivers is actually very good indeed, as good as any passive speaker I've heard.

The tweeter isnt a great unit though, easily bettered today
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Last edited by sq225917; 15th June 2013 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 15th June 2013, 09:24 PM   #19
gassit is offline gassit  Australia
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This is all good stuff!

Could anyone out there recommend a good sub-woofer build that would suit the Epos?

System7, that link was a stunner. You've rekindled my interest in physics. Thanks!
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Old 16th June 2013, 12:17 AM   #20
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gassit View Post
This is all good stuff!

Could anyone out there recommend a good sub-woofer build that would suit the Epos?

System7, that link was a stunner. You've rekindled my interest in physics. Thanks!
I rewatched it myself. Very good, isn't it?

While the subwoofer experts gather their wits, I did a little modelling of the treble filter. It's rather easy to replace the 2.4uF capacitor with something a bit more sophisticated and more phase aligned. I am, as it happens, a bit of an authority on Robin Marshall designs, having owned 3 including the similar Mordaunt Short MS10i.

His trademark is actually a woofer running near full-range, along with a metal dome tweeter. In this case, you can't do anything with the bass unit, the bafflestep is built into the voicecoil, the damping and rolloff into the mechanics of the driver.
Attached Images
File Type: png Epos_ES14_FirstOrder.PNG (13.5 KB, 59 views)
File Type: png Epos_ES14_2ndOrder.PNG (13.0 KB, 58 views)
File Type: png Epos_ES14_TrebleFilter.PNG (7.7 KB, 57 views)
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