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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 28th May 2013, 06:45 PM   #11
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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I have rarely encountered such a horrible combination, but have given it my best shot with similar Visaton W170 Bass and Visaton TL16H Horn.

This sort of circuit seems to be indicated for a 30L standmounter. How that relates to your situation is for you to decide...

Phase is actually quite good here.
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Old 28th May 2013, 07:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
I have rarely encountered such a horrible combination
I'm honoured that my decisions have put me in such an exclusive group

In your schematic, I don't quite understand the resistor values under the inductor values (described by black rectangles). How are these wired?

Also, if one was to swap in these tweeters, would my situation be improved slightly?

Thanks for taking the time.
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Old 28th May 2013, 08:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picowallspeaker View Post

It's 100 dB/W/m
against a 88 dB/W/m woofer

You've got to loose 12 dB ( theory ) if not more ( electrical losses such as the coil before the woofer )
And in the end it's not even Hi-fi !
Can you expect hi-fi from $18 speakers?
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Old 28th May 2013, 09:42 PM   #14
SQfreak is offline SQfreak  United States
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I think this thread is the best example of what not to do and I'm not talking about the OP's build, questions or driver choices. In fact, the word sanctimonious comes to mind.
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Old 29th May 2013, 12:11 AM   #15
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Location: Mar del Plata, a BIG seasonal getaway city, can see the Ocean from our residence.
The reason your not getting any useful bass output is that this woofer you now have is not suited to a sealed enclosure....it works far far better in a Ported enclosure. The simulation you used is crude to say the least. There are more complex simulations that consider far more variables & are therefore more accurate.
I ran your driver thru my simulator WinISD beta.....a common FREE simulation & found your bass driver will work just fine in a 3.018 cubic foot enclosure. With a common dimension ratio this works out to 13.763" by 17.341" by 21.848".
With a port size of 102mm diameter by 165mm long you can expect the bass to fade off at 30 Hz, or -3Db@30Hz as it is commonly written. A much smaller port should be used, perhaps half that diameter. Note that these are INSIDE dimensions. Changing the port size is easily plugged into this simulation.
Do yourself a big favor & build your box out of at least 3/4" material......I like to build with 1" material......I am assuming you used MDF or what's called Medium Density Fiberboard...you can reuse your stuffing in the other box, lining the insides.
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Last edited by Richard Ellis; 29th May 2013 at 12:18 AM. Reason: additional thoughts.
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Old 29th May 2013, 01:53 AM   #16
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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I think I did this right, tried it twice and still looks scary
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Old 29th May 2013, 03:00 AM   #17
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Location: Mar del Plata, a BIG seasonal getaway city, can see the Ocean from our residence.
Now your getting it.....my version merely splits the "erratic response" right down the middle...up one Db for the first 'hill', down one Db for the valley.
Have fun with it & experiment. I've found some drivers simply cannot perform well down low no matter how you change things....they just don't want to work.
Try altering volume & tuning frequency...separately, & slowly....note how the waveform changes....try drivers with the EBP for vented as sealed & vice versa. Try to keep the vent pipe as short as possible because it takes up a small portion of internal volume, somewhat throwing off your tuning.

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Last edited by Richard Ellis; 29th May 2013 at 03:08 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 29th May 2013, 03:44 AM   #18
PB2 is offline PB2  United States
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I suggest that you go to the Parts Express "Tech Talk" forum and ask if anyone has measured that woofer - point us to the measurements if you find them.
Most would use it with a dome tweeter, the HiVi K1 is a decent low cost tweeter:
The Madisound Speaker Store

But there is no reason why you can't get decent sound with a horn, if it is a good one. I've never seen measurements of that one and it looks like a very old design rather than a modern waveguide. This is a good, modern inexpensive horn tweeter also note that there is a DIY kit referenced there but the crossover is rather complex:
Denovo Mini Elliptical - Compression Drivers DIY Sound Group

However, it is difficult to get good sound just by combining parts you need to follow a logical design process. I believe that there might be some worked out designs using that woofer on the PE forum. Point us to it if you find one and I'll comment on it.

Prebuilt crossovers usually do not employ baffle step compensation and this would explain your weak bass issue.

It is actually good that the box is large, vent tune it to 42 Hz and you might see a significant improvement. Just line the walls with damping if you vent it.
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Last edited by PB2; 29th May 2013 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 29th May 2013, 08:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PB2 View Post
Prebuilt crossovers usually do not employ baffle step compensation and this would explain your weak bass issue.
..together with the high sensitivity tweeter, I can imagine

Also the Fs ( resonance frequency) of the woofer is a little bit high for a woofer
of that diameter. I mean, is not that important but it implies that the engineering of that driver has brought to that parameter. Suspensions, motor, cone weight ...
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Old 29th May 2013, 09:32 AM   #20
markusA is offline markusA  Sweden
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There's an easy fix to get you going.
Get yourself a miniDSP and a couple of cheap amps. This will allow you to experiment with crossovers and filter in an easy manner.
It might not always be the best final solution but you can't beat it for experimentation purposes.
Best of luck.
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