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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 2nd June 2013, 04:47 PM   #111
Face is offline Face  United States
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Originally Posted by ra7 View Post
I think if you put these two waveguides with properly designed crossovers in a blind test, they will rate highly, and there will probably be no clear winner.
And once the blinders are off, they'll see the SEOS waveguides are prettier.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 04:52 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

BTW, is that really the point of this thread? Flat is better than controlled directivity?
No, the controlled directivity is essential. But both waveguides in question have that, so there's no problem on that front. He's arguing that his waveguide has controlled directivity AND flatter response. His guide isn't as controlled at the bottom of the passband as the SEOS but that's the tradeoff he made for smoother response.

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I'd say its equally or more important in a finished system, but not in the raw driver response so I'd used different drivers. Maybe Wayne will speak more to that.
As I mentioned last week, they both look like very good waveguides to me and I'm not sure I would be able to pick a clear winner even if I owned both. (I own neither.) I'm fairly certain (still) that the slight differences in raw response would be swamped by implementation (cabs, crossovers, LF driver) in a full system.

Thanks for commenting on the validity of the measurements that have been presented. I think they are all reasonable (except the one by Brad with the really big dip) but it's good to know which are considered valid by the people involved here.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 05:16 PM   #113
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Sorry a bit snarky and we don't need any more snark. Wayne stipulates that you need ~4 ft of wall (x,y,z) and ~6 ft of no obstructions (x,y,z) for his Corner Horns to perform optimally. The 'constraining' starting from just above the room nodes is part of the design.

Anechoic would be breaking his 'speaker cabinet'?!?

What'cha breakin cabinets for, Mon?
Hello Audiolapdance

That's my point if the walls and only the walls are controling the directivity of the design at the lower frequencies then using that logic I can place any speaker in a corner and make the claim it is CD. This is obviously not the case.

We all know at low frequencies the radiation pattern for a system is for all intent and purposes onmidirectional, here is a 12" driver plotted in free space as an example from 80-500hz.

I don't see any advantage over a conventional box system as far as control of room modes. There is no directivity control below the Schroeder frequency like in any other system. You are still going to have to address room modes from corner placement like any other system.

Rob
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Old 2nd June 2013, 07:54 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
I don't see any advantage over a conventional box system as far as control of room modes. There is no directivity control below the Schroeder frequency like in any other system. You are still going to have to address room modes from corner placement like any other system.

Rob
The advantage of Wayne's 3Pi and 4Pi cornerhorns over any 2-way matched-directivity speaker is their use of a 24" mid-horn which extends true CD down to 300 Hz (another 2 octaves or so). Below 300 Hz you would need a bass horn to get full-range CD, but with the trade-off of less bass extension and more upper bass distortion in the case of a folded bass horn. The last 5-6 pages of the whitepaper below explains Wayne's design choices for his cornerhorns.

http://www.pispeakers.com/Pi_Speakers_Info.pdf
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Old 2nd June 2013, 10:39 PM   #115
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Weirdest thing. Only difference is I'm outside today. I wouldn't think that affects HF. Nothing else changed. Honest. :shrug:

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Old 2nd June 2013, 10:44 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
The advantage of Wayne's 3Pi and 4Pi cornerhorns over any 2-way matched-directivity speaker is their use of a 24" mid-horn which extends true CD down to 300 Hz (another 2 octaves or so).
There was a 24" SEOS made for that. There are builds starting with the SEOS-24 and the BMS-4594 coaxial compression driver.

Here it is next to the SEOS-12.

Click the image to open in full size.

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Here it is over a speaker using a 15" woofer:

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Old 2nd June 2013, 11:02 PM   #117
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You've mentioned the bogus charts probably a dozen times now. Is there an official response graph for the SEOS 12? Could you post it please? In lieu of that could you please state which graphs you have a problem with and which are ok?

There was a guy on the AVS forum that was trying to measure his speakers for some crossover work for the first time. He had never used the gear before and his first measurements were wrong, and everyone knew it. He said he messed up.

Well of course, those were the graphs that Wayne chose to use in his recent comparisons of the SEOS, even though he knew they were completely wrong.


My guess is that if I took one of Waynes horns and aimed it at the corner in my living room and used those measurements to say his horn was bad......people might get aggravated. But I don't do that kind of stuff.


Again, I have never once said anything bad about anyone's products. Ever. I've never tried comparing any of them, never called names, never been banned from sites because of name calling, had posts deleted due to name calling, nothing.

The only thing I have done is help get a waveguide produced that was designed by a bunch of smart guys on a DIY audio forum. Then ask others to design speakers around them. That's it. I help package up those kits in my spare time. Obviously that rubbed one person the wrong way.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 11:05 PM   #118
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There was a 24" SEOS made for that.
The Pi mid-horn is loaded with a 10" Eminence driver which means it can probably provide CD coverage to considerably lower frequencies.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 11:14 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
The Pi mid-horn is loaded with a 10" Eminence driver which means it can probably provide CD coverage to considerably lower frequencies.
And the SEOS 24 can provide CD coverage to considerably higher frequencies.
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Old 2nd June 2013, 11:23 PM   #120
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And the SEOS 24 can provide CD coverage to considerably higher frequencies.
The Pi cornerhorns are 3-ways with a DE250/H290c on top, so they probably go higher as well.
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