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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 13th May 2013, 09:15 PM   #21
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
This must be a joke. There is no reason for such an expensive speaker to use 8531. Even 8530 is a much better option. How do you know that YGA doesn't use custom order drivers? Do they stick a sticker behind the woofer saying Scan-Speak 15W/8531K? This audio world must be full of fools



I think it is not difficult to reconstruct the MTM with 16dB/octave at 1k75Hz. The big woofers are just acting like subwoofer.

I have never found any subwoofer that "work". It is difficult to find a matching subwoofer at 75Hz. That's a crazy engineering. And you got to have big listening room.
SoundStage! Measurements - YG Acoustics Anat Reference Main Module Loudspeakers (4/2007)
SoundStage! Equipment Review - YG Acoustics Anat Reference Main Module Loudspeakers (4/2007)
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Old 13th May 2013, 09:39 PM   #22
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... to add to the last comment, although I am sure i could get 'enough' bass from the two 15w drivers i'm also aware of how ported subs seem to sound boomy whenever I've tried them, whilst sealed enclosures sound just... better. I mean they sound like bass not boom, if you guys follow what i mean?

(doesn't help that my current main listening room is almost a 3m cube!)
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Old 13th May 2013, 11:10 PM   #23
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by nannoo View Post
... to add to the last comment, although I am sure i could get 'enough' bass from the two 15w drivers i'm also aware of how ported subs seem to sound boomy whenever I've tried them, whilst sealed enclosures sound just... better. I mean they sound like bass not boom, if you guys follow what i mean?

(doesn't help that my current main listening room is almost a 3m cube!)
That's why I mentioned that you have to take into account the room size when you aim at the "BEST" possible speaker design. Initially I assumed you have normal size listening room, but then from your replies I thought you got to be a rich man with very big room. But now you said it. This is an important design factor overlooked by almost everyone.

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Originally Posted by nannoo View Post
Interesting that nobody has picked up the digital crossover idea...
Everyone can build speakers, either digital, analog or passive. But those who can build good quality ones, they rely on skill and knowledge. If! you know what I mean.
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Old 13th May 2013, 11:15 PM   #24
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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I scanned the second link for 8531 but I found this:

Features "The Main Module is a two-way, sealed-box design with the drivers mounted in an M-T-M configuration. The 5 1/4" top and bottom mid-woofers are from Scan-Speak’s Revelator series and made to Yoav’s specs…. The tweeter is a Vifa XT-series ring-radiator design that Yoav says is modified in-house." "The sides, top, back, and bottom of the Main Module are made from two layers of aircraft-grade aluminum. The inside layer is 12mm thick, while the outside layer is 8mm thick…. The front baffle is made from ballistic-grade aluminum-titanium."

I think it is not ring radiator. I will check again later.
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Old 14th May 2013, 03:41 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by nannoo View Post
Could you tell me more about the transmission line design? was it a single woofer into a transmission line or two?

Transmission line would make me nervous because of the 'getting it right' factor, but the reality is it would be very easy to build an enclosure with an adjustable TL length, and that is rapidly looking like the way to go. With the ZRT being so well recieved, it's very tempting to jump on that - not least because the crossovers give me a great start, the rest would be tweeking as I'd have the 15w's wired in parallel.

How does a 2.5 way system effect overall performance? (output level, distortion mechanisms, frequency response)

whilst looking around for a 2-way MTM design i came across previously i stumbled upon this, site, anybody seen these things before? they're making some pretty bold claims...

https://www.hypexshop.com/
The transmission line I heard was at an audio shop that was doing a show. It was a local company that I had never heard of before. Haven't seen much from them since either. It was a mass loaded folded quarter wave transmission line. It had nice bass. It used the coated version of the speaker and a Vifa XT tweeter. Overall, I think it was the best speaker of the show. It was an MTM design.

The 2.5 way design uses one of the woofers to compensate for the baffle diffraction and its frequency response variation. The .5 woofer has a rolled off high end response selected to match the baffle step diffraction response hump. It has the benefit of requiring fewer crossover components to tame the hump. The second woofer also provides addition bass response. All around positives except for the cost of the extra driver and inductor. Perhaps someone else here would care to elaborate more.
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Old 14th May 2013, 04:10 AM   #26
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by reactivepower View Post
It was a mass loaded folded quarter wave transmission line. It had nice bass. It used the coated version of the speaker and a Vifa XT tweeter. Overall, I think it was the best speaker of the show. It was an MTM design.
Isn't it an irony, a speaker with a very cheap tweeter, was the best of the show. Of course it is a small show, but still...
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Old 14th May 2013, 04:23 AM   #27
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It was up against the B&W diamonds, Vienna Accoustics, and many more. I like the sound from my 6600 better, but the coated revelators in a mass loaded TL sounded great.

If I were to build another set of full range speakers I would build a mass loaded transmission line.
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Old 14th May 2013, 04:29 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Isn't it an irony, a speaker with a very cheap tweeter, was the best of the show. Of course it is a small show, but still...
I have seen the Vifa XT, or something resembling it, in at least four well made commercial speakers. Most commercial manufacturers are looking for the balance between cost and performance. The 6600 is a better tweeter but from a manufacturing perspective does that make it worth it. No. On the other hand it might to some. It might also to DIYers who want the best they can get for their effort. At this poi t in my life I have more money than time. May as well do it right (or the best I can anyways) the first time.
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Old 14th May 2013, 04:46 AM   #29
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by reactivepower View Post
I have seen the Vifa XT, or something resembling it, in at least four well made commercial speakers. Most commercial manufacturers are looking for the balance between cost and performance. The 6600 is a better tweeter but from a manufacturing perspective does that make it worth it. No. On the other hand it might to some.
That's one of the point of my "dislike" of the 660000.

At YGA level, you don't care about manufacturing cost of the drivers. The price mark up is so high. You can custom order the drivers to your own spec like many do.

Vifa XT has serious problem. Those who think that an XT25-based speaker design has been one of the best sounding speaker in the WORLD, really don't have ears. This proves that speaker design is so difficult, that many designers don't have the ability to use first class drivers to build first class speaker.

Many high end speaker producers make use of rich fools. Pick arbitrary best drivers (such as the 8531) and build a speaker with impressive "measurements". Pay those reviewers and there you go
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Old 14th May 2013, 04:54 AM   #30
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by reactivepower View Post
It was up against the B&W diamonds, Vienna Accoustics, and many more. I like the sound from my 6600 better, but the coated revelators in a mass loaded TL sounded great.

If I were to build another set of full range speakers I would build a mass loaded transmission line.
Yep, I know you were impressed with the MLTL "sound", not the XT25. It's my favorite too. No speakers with impedance plot jump over 20 ohm can become one of the best speakers
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