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Old 29th April 2013, 08:44 AM   #1
smigza is offline smigza  Australia
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Default woofer choice for wmtmw design

Hi all,

I am contemplating upgrading my front speakers with a diy wmtmw design consisting of xt25 tweeter, 2x peerless 830986 midrange and 2x peerless 830657 as the bass driver. I have simulated in visaton boxsim successfully.

The crossover frequencies are 500hz and 2.6khz

The bass drivers are 6.5 inch and have been chosen due to price restrictions. They are stamped frame however can play below 40hz f3 with the right volume and port selection. The distortion profile below 450 hz is similar to silver flute woofer. The woofers are paper cone from SDS product line

There are a number peerless drivers which are a bit smaller at 5.5 inch hovever they have a cast Frame and a better distortion profile. With the right port and enclosure these drivers can play down to 60hz f3. The driver will be $10-15 more expensive than the 830657. The cone will either be fiberglass or polypropylene from HDS product family. They have the same sensitivity as the 830657.

My question is how important is the bass driver for overall sq, is it worth going with the smaller driver for the sacrifice of low end for improved distortion, transient response and a cast frame. Also I hear paper cones sound best; will a fiberglass or polypropylene cone have a significantly different sound signature than paper?

Thanks,

Steve
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Old 29th April 2013, 09:18 AM   #2
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I smigza,

I own a pair of Nomex164 with two 830875 in a 34l box tuned to 40 hz, the F3 is around 45 Hz.
I consider that's the minimum required and they play better with a sub crossed around 50 Hz (not mesured yet).

Sd is very important for bass, IMHO 2x6.5" is a minimum ;-)
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Old 29th April 2013, 09:55 AM   #3
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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Have you a pair of the 6.5", looks like a sealed box woofer.

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Old 29th April 2013, 11:45 AM   #4
smigza is offline smigza  Australia
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Thanks for your responses so far.

I have modelled the woofer in boxsim and winisd seems to model ok for a ported enclosure. Someone on parts express has recommended the dimensions for a ported enclosure as well. Unless a ported design will give crappy bass?
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Old 29th April 2013, 12:10 PM   #5
Dissi is offline Dissi  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smigza View Post
My question is how important is the bass driver for overall sq, is it worth going with the smaller driver for the sacrifice of low end for improved distortion, transient response and a cast frame.
Stay with the Peerless SDS 164 drivers. Going smaller is no option, you will not gain anything. The equal sized drivers from the Nomex and PPB line offer lower distortions and more Xmax, but they actually do not outperform the SDS regarding bass performance at a given transient response!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Peerless SDS 164 (830657).jpg (206.9 KB, 141 views)
File Type: jpg Peerless HDS PPB 164 (830874).jpg (207.9 KB, 138 views)
File Type: jpg Peerless HDS Nomex 164 (830875).jpg (207.2 KB, 136 views)
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Old 29th April 2013, 12:18 PM   #6
smigza is offline smigza  Australia
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Thanks for your post Dissi,

I guess my main concern is the value added to sound quality below 500hz by going from SDS to HDS, eg will there be a significant difference between the 6.5 inch SDS and HDS drivers in this frequency range and could the pressed steel frame of the SDS driver have a resonant mode which will be audible in this range as well? Or is the whole resonance thing only an issue when throwing big power levels into the driver?

Last edited by smigza; 29th April 2013 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 29th April 2013, 12:40 PM   #7
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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I think the issue would be that the drivers would bottom-out to quickly - if they are not in a sealed box.

A common problem when using drivers intended for sealed boxes in vented boxes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by smigza View Post
Thanks for your responses so far.

I have modelled the woofer in boxsim and winisd seems to model ok for a ported enclosure. Someone on parts express has recommended the dimensions for a ported enclosure as well. Unless a ported design will give crappy bass?
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Old 30th April 2013, 03:12 AM   #8
smigza is offline smigza  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODougbo View Post
I think the issue would be that the drivers would bottom-out to quickly - if they are not in a sealed box.

A common problem when using drivers intended for sealed boxes in vented boxes.
Hmm that is a good point, which I never considered. If the peerless SDS are a sealed cabinet woofer than I will clearly need to find an alternative
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Old 30th April 2013, 10:24 AM   #9
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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So many drivers out there, look for a driver that fits you needs, has 4 - 5 stars and great reviews.

btw, maybe you can seal up the woofer chambers for the Peerless?
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Old 30th April 2013, 02:18 PM   #10
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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smigza,
do you use a subwoofer, is this a HT setup? If Yes, I warmly recommend the sealed arrangement! Even without a sub, sealed has better bass quality and quite good extension.

2x 6,5" woofers don't play very low AND loud in any arrangement. They are fine for music but for movies they need a sub. Many people are looking at amplitude responsion curve's linearity, but forget how excursion, group delay and distortion behave.
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Last edited by Juhazi; 30th April 2013 at 02:20 PM.
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