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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:52 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
I'm still thinking this is going to be sub bass shy. The kind of top/kick setup you have would typically be paired with 2x 18" horn subs each side or 2x 2x18 reflex on each side.

My 15" reflex have similar estimated max output to the PAL12 (~125db 1m) and match up well with normal 10" PA tops on 200w.

You may want to seriously consider putting the subs together and corner loading them in most venues.
I already mentioned that I don't NEED to run the full system all out. Once levels are matched, I don't see the problem. I'd rather have less power compression / clipping in the entire system as opposed to everything running all out. These subs should be fine for now.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:54 AM   #22
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I chose the round waveguides for a less colored sound on the Comp. drivers. They were cheap enough that if they don't sound the way I want them to, ill swap waveguides.

I've tested the combination at low power and liked what I heard. I will see how it works when all together as a system.

Last edited by m R g S r; 2nd May 2013 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 01:07 AM   #23
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I am planning on running the 8" midrange with the 10" waveguide on top of it. Was planning on angling the pairs in slightly to minimize width. I understand there will be some comp filtering.

I am going to see how it works this way. As I said, if I don't like it ill make some inexpensive changes. That's why this is DIY! Ever-changing systems / endless experimentation.

I also wanted to minimize HF distortion so I'm crossing the comp drivers higher than they need to be, as well as having more than one per side.

I understand that there will be more distortion in the LF region. In fact many techno tracks have distortion within the content

Last edited by m R g S r; 2nd May 2013 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 04:28 AM   #24
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Hadda do some drilling on the plates. Couldn't find any "G" sized hole openings, and on one plate (for the midbass) I needed a combination of D hole and G hole for the 8 conductor neutrik connector
Click the image to open in full size.

With this setup I will run the 8c wire to each subwoofer, link an 8c to the midbass, then a 4c to the midrange/horn. Setup will be foolproof and simple!
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Old 2nd May 2013, 03:52 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by m R g S r View Post
I am planning on running the 8" midrange with the 10" waveguide on top of it. Was planning on angling the pairs in slightly to minimize width. I understand there will be some comp filtering.
I had forgot you were going four way.

If side by side, the pairs should be angled out, with roughly 90 degree waveguides as you have, make the trap angle as tight to the HF drivers as possible.

Angling in "V" style creates terrible comb filtering (not just "some") which can't be EQed out, as it varies with frequency.

An example below, the blue trace is the on axis response of a single 10" with a small tweeter/waveguide, basically within +/- 3 dB with a gradual rolloff from 100 Hz to 15K.
The brown trace is a pair of those speakers with the front panels angled in toward each other at 45 degree to each other (90 degree included angle).
The frequency response now is something like +/- 11 dB, and 15K is down 10 dB, sounding only half as loud as the single.

Move off center just 10 degrees (green trace) and there is a 22 dB variation around 3K, right in the octave where hearing is most critical and sensitive.

The response is even worse further off axis, but you get the point.

Given the four 8" and 4 HF horns, I'd make a pair of 2x8" boxes with a HF horn above the pair of vertically aligned 8", and separate boxes for the other pair of horns.
The separate horns could be stacked on top and rotated inward for center fill if needed. Keeps guest DJs from frying the audience (and HF drivers) if they are pointed at them.
Put "top hats" in the subs, mid bass (oops, there is a handle where they should go) and top cabinets, cut some pipes to various lengths, top speakers go high.
If you ported the 2x8", for small gigs you could leave the 15" behind, and stuff the ports for larger gigs when using it all.

Art
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File Type: png Cabs.png (672.5 KB, 412 views)
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Old 2nd May 2013, 04:08 PM   #26
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The 8's are sealed back. So I can just make a relatively flat panel with two 8" cutouts for them.

I can run the tapped horns upright (38" base for the midbass) and strap them together that way. Then two seperate poles on top of the upright (tall way) midbass. Midbass would be up to 71" tall) with the 8's and the HF horns on top of that.

It should be stable enough considering the very light weight of the midbass and upper components. If not I can add stableizers to the subwoofer base.

Stacked in that manner would be About 7.6 feet floor to top. Midrange and HF would be about 6 feet from the ground. Above most people's heads.

Last edited by m R g S r; 2nd May 2013 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 04:52 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by m R g S r View Post
I can run the tapped horns upright (38" base for the midbass) and strap them together that way. Then two seperate poles on top of the upright (tall way) midbass. Midbass would be up to 71" tall) with the 8's and the HF horns on top of that.
Dude, side by side mid high placement of wide dispersion stuff just plain sux.
Minimum center to center distance is 10", go off axis and you will hear all sorts of nulls- you can predict with certainty where they will occur

Not so apparent indoors, but outside you can hear the changes easily.

Line 'em up!
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Old 2nd May 2013, 05:26 PM   #28
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Okay ill try it out!

I can maybe use one CD / HF horn per side and then have the two backups. Cross the CD a little higher (3k?) and see if that's acceptable.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 04:39 AM   #29
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This is what I came up with for each side. Thanks Art!

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 5th May 2013, 12:01 PM   #30
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This is how they will be run. Total stack height around 8.5 feet. Mids and highs above the heads of listeners.

Click the image to open in full size.
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