Seas Excel W22's in open baffle, need more midbass "oomph" - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 24th April 2013, 04:27 AM   #11
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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architect7,
if I can look right at the scale in the picture, my slopes are close to LR2 (12db/octave) acoustically.

I am using minidsp, the software (electrical) slopes are far from these, because dipole transducers have -6db/oct attenuation in the low end of range. HP slopes in minidsp can be 6dB/oct for dipoles!

Some other people have noticed that mild slopes work better, the transition from a driver to another is "softer", which helps to get dispersion changes softer too. And yes, you can kind of hear that.

You must check for phase too for each xo! Invert phase and run test, adjust delay. Also please measure at 30¤ and 60¤ angles too! I have used 30¤ for reference standard.

See my post #162 Aino gradient - a collaborative speaker project and so on! the xo at post #162 is not final, I made slopes even less steep, post #165

I love minidsp!
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Old 24th April 2013, 06:38 AM   #12
Jonasz is offline Jonasz  Sweden
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Just raise the crossover to 150 or so. I use the IB15 in an H baffle with my dipole tops and just 110 to 130hz makes a big difference in "slam" and effortlessness even when playing at the same soundlevel. Btw the Orion has imho close to zero impact in the midbass even if the numbers indicate otherwise, membranarea is the key. Earlier I used two w22s in Phoenixbaffles and that was somewhat better but no IB15.

You dont have to play loud to appreciate area!
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Old 24th April 2013, 08:14 AM   #13
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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As an appendix to message #11,

When I gave up of looking at minidsp "curves" of xo, I set the xo-frexquencies unsymmetrically too!

Linkwitz and Riley are wise guys and mathematicians! The LR slopes work very well acoustically, conserving energy and phase.

Architect7 - do you have a measuring microphone (a good net camera will do, I have used MS LifeCam 3000HD with success) and some analyzer program? I use REW, ARTA and Holmimpulse are very good too but a little more "tecnical". Without you will never get "there"
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Last edited by Juhazi; 24th April 2013 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 24th April 2013, 08:55 AM   #14
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Looking at your picture of the system, my first impression is that the baffle is not wide enough for running the W22 any lower than 200 Hz.

It's of course possible to EQ as much as you like in the low end, but it will result in high distortion levels and will not sound good.
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Old 24th April 2013, 11:02 AM   #15
Toaster is offline Toaster  United Kingdom
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Interesting and a nice aesthetic too Overkill. On the Volt, was eq used for the low end? Any bracing in the Volt VPL? I have a BM251.3 that this arrangement might work well on.
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Old 24th April 2013, 11:38 AM   #16
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Default Volt in VPL

Hi Toaster,

Thanks, glad you like the asthetics, I think speakers need to look good as we spend a lot of time with them...Just like wives really!!

The Volt BM 251.3 is a slightly more sensitive version of the BM2500.4 ( where does he get those model numbers from?) with a higher Fs.
It should still sound great in a VPL style open baffle.
It all depends on the size of baffle / depth of the side cheeks but you can get good response down to around 100Hz with no Eq and a similar size of baffle to the attached.
You can then add some Eq but I advise caution ie not more than around 5dB to 6dB boost at around 70Hz to 80Hz as you will run out of Xmax quickly.
The real advantage of this VPL is that it gives you lightening fast transiets and super clean low midrange, this VPL and Volt combo is not designed to do bass.
I'll post a couple of other pics of a 15 inch Beyma and Precision Devices for sub 100Hz.

Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
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Old 24th April 2013, 11:41 AM   #17
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Default Bracing

Almost forgot, no bracing required, the cabinet was 20mm thick Velstone, synthetic marble like stuff similar to Corian...It weighed 28Kg before the 8 Kilo Driver!

Cheers
D.
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Old 24th April 2013, 12:07 PM   #18
Toaster is offline Toaster  United Kingdom
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Thanks Derek. The application is similar to yours, midbass from 100Hz or so up. Just prototyped a fairly shallow stuffed box for the Volt. FR is good but it still sounds 'boxy'. Don't want to drag this OT, but this info should be useful for the OP too.
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Old 24th April 2013, 12:11 PM   #19
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Default VPL bass

Here are some pics of a VPL bass system using two 15 inch pro drivers, a Beyma 115K and a Presision Devices 158 bass mid.
I run the Beyma from 80Hz to 25 Hz with some Eq boost and the Precision Devices from 80Hz to 400Hz then the Manger driver up to 20KHz.

The cabinets were light weight, only 18mm MDF, but the big drivers were not bolted to the cabinets and they did not actually touch the cabinets. I suspended the drivers ( not very pretty, but it was later covered with grill foam) using soft polyprop cord and used 10mm thick sorbothane gaskets around the drivers front and rear edges ( the driver were rear mounted) and small beech wood blocks to guide the drivers into place.

The Manger was also suspended and also ran open baffle, later used a giant horn to add about 6dB sensitivity to the Manger.

Even at very high SPL there was no cabinet vibration...really great way to go.

Cheers
D.
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Old 24th April 2013, 12:23 PM   #20
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Default Horn added!

Same VPL with horn on top, 22Kilo of solid MDF rings machined down and painted....Phew no wonder I got tired of big speakers and went to on wall line arrays!

Cheers
D.
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